Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

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InDigital
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Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by InDigital » Tue, 31. Jan 23, 08:13

Good day!

My Capital ships equipped with Plasma and Flaks accidently hit Argon bahemoth vanguard in Hatvikva near gate.
As I were doing another things in game it was hard to see this situation earlier.
In the end that ship became RED and I had no other choice than to load previous save as that ship became enemy.
That was bahemoth vanguard and it won't go anywhere and will also hit my ships until I kill him.
But If I kill him the reputation will change!

And I have idea if till 6.0 is possible to implement that!

Simply...
If your ship accidently hit another ship and it became RED just Comm that ship and say Sorry and pay Credits based on damage or whatever + bonus for stupidity.

CBJ
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by CBJ » Tue, 31. Jan 23, 09:00

This is not the first time this has been suggested, but it is fundamentally flawed. What it means is that, especially later in the game, you can destroy whoever and whatever you like and then just pay them off to trivially avoid making enemies, thereby totally negating any penalty for attacking anyone.

InDigital
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by InDigital » Tue, 31. Jan 23, 09:28

CBJ wrote:
Tue, 31. Jan 23, 09:00
This is not the first time this has been suggested, but it is fundamentally flawed. What it means is that, especially later in the game, you can destroy whoever and whatever you like and then just pay them off to trivially avoid making enemies, thereby totally negating any penalty for attacking anyone.
Well not really. Well at least I am not giving up!

1st. thing... not me but my capital ship.
2st. there should be like what was the last capital ship command, if it was defend or destroy enemies then - how Argon became Enemy? Because he got under that gun!
So decision becoming of My enemy and starting to fight back because of accident shoot is the moment we should cache somehow.
I mean - no direct command to attack already means accidental hit.

CBJ
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by CBJ » Tue, 31. Jan 23, 09:35

As I've explained on previous occasions when this was brought up, the game already gives you reduced consequences for accidental hits by ships and turrets that you don't control directly. Removing those consequences completely (because, as I said above, paying a few credits is a completely trivial consequence, especially later in the game when you are more likely to get into this situation) makes it far too easy to bypass the penalties of destroying enemies, because it's relatively easy to engineer situations where you "accidentally" shoot something intentionally.

InDigital
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by InDigital » Tue, 31. Jan 23, 09:37

CBJ wrote:
Tue, 31. Jan 23, 09:35
As I've explained on previous occasions when this was brought up, the game already gives you reduced consequences for accidental hits by ships and turrets that you don't control directly. Removing those consequences completely (because, as I said above, paying a few credits is a completely trivial consequence, especially later in the game when you are more likely to get into this situation) makes it far too easy to bypass the penalties of destroying enemies, because it's relatively easy to engineer situations where you "accidentally" shoot something intentionally.
Ok that makes sense... :)

Falcrack
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by Falcrack » Tue, 31. Jan 23, 16:46

CBJ wrote:
Tue, 31. Jan 23, 09:35
As I've explained on previous occasions when this was brought up, the game already gives you reduced consequences for accidental hits by ships and turrets that you don't control directly. Removing those consequences completely (because, as I said above, paying a few credits is a completely trivial consequence, especially later in the game when you are more likely to get into this situation) makes it far too easy to bypass the penalties of destroying enemies, because it's relatively easy to engineer situations where you "accidentally" shoot something intentionally.
I disagree with your position. The snowball effect of turning allies hostile even with reduced penalties are still way too high. I am never going to engineer a situation where I "accidentally" shoot something intentionally, and I would rather not have my regular gameplay gimped because you want to prevent an exploit that I would never use in my single player game. Shots from ships or turrets I do not control should have zero rep penalty. None at all.

Smart_Bomb
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by Smart_Bomb » Tue, 31. Jan 23, 17:18

CBJ wrote:
Tue, 31. Jan 23, 09:00
This is not the first time this has been suggested, but it is fundamentally flawed. What it means is that, especially later in the game, you can destroy whoever and whatever you like and then just pay them off to trivially avoid making enemies, thereby totally negating any penalty for attacking anyone.
Accidentally shooting a ship or station damaging shields and not hull I think is what he meant, no take backs after you get into hull.

I especially hate the temporary rep loss feature as even if its not permanent, you can drop 10 ranks and they will call others ships in on you and then it snowballs. There has to be a better system considering how precious rep is
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Alan Phipps
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 31. Jan 23, 17:23

... but zero rep/aggression penalty might prevent a favourite tactic of mine in stirring up conflict between a locally tolerated / faction-cloaked enemy of mine and a local asset that could destroy it or just make it go away. I get between them and then let misses and collateral damage have unintended consequences for my enemy.
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Eyeklops
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by Eyeklops » Wed, 1. Feb 23, 19:39

Falcrack wrote:
Tue, 31. Jan 23, 16:46
CBJ wrote:
Tue, 31. Jan 23, 09:35
As I've explained on previous occasions when this was brought up, the game already gives you reduced consequences for accidental hits by ships and turrets that you don't control directly. Removing those consequences completely (because, as I said above, paying a few credits is a completely trivial consequence, especially later in the game when you are more likely to get into this situation) makes it far too easy to bypass the penalties of destroying enemies, because it's relatively easy to engineer situations where you "accidentally" shoot something intentionally.
I disagree with your position. The snowball effect of turning allies hostile even with reduced penalties are still way too high. I am never going to engineer a situation where I "accidentally" shoot something intentionally, and I would rather not have my regular gameplay gimped because you want to prevent an exploit that I would never use in my single player game. Shots from ships or turrets I do not control should have zero rep penalty. None at all.
If this was a multiplayer scenario I get CBJ's viewpoint, but it's not (at least not yet). Maybe Egosoft feels this exploit is so game-breaking it damages the brand. I dunno. I also haven't had enough time to do large fleet battles in 5.1, maybe the reduced consequences CBJ mentioned make this a moot issue. I'm guessing not as this is a relatively new topic.


To make sure my pilots don't inadvertently start a mini-war (that can lead to an all out war) with another faction I feel forced to do a few things:

1. I'm never IS when my ships are engaging in combat within close proximity to another faction's assets. Someday I'd love to watch my big guns fight side-by-side with a friendly faction. But right now...nope, too risky. I wonder if the new camera in 6.0 will have the same problems. Will this be a feature I can't use without worry? :(

2. Equip fleets with more accurate weaponry. Bye bye plasma, blast mortar, and flak. Hello laser fleets! There is probably an accuracy level lower than laser that is still safe but I haven't run the tests for it. Has anybody had problems with pulse or bolt turrets?

InDigital
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by InDigital » Thu, 2. Feb 23, 09:49

Eyeklops wrote:
Wed, 1. Feb 23, 19:39
Falcrack wrote:
Tue, 31. Jan 23, 16:46
CBJ wrote:
Tue, 31. Jan 23, 09:35
As I've explained on previous occasions when this was brought up, the game already gives you reduced consequences for accidental hits by ships and turrets that you don't control directly. Removing those consequences completely (because, as I said above, paying a few credits is a completely trivial consequence, especially later in the game when you are more likely to get into this situation) makes it far too easy to bypass the penalties of destroying enemies, because it's relatively easy to engineer situations where you "accidentally" shoot something intentionally.
I disagree with your position. The snowball effect of turning allies hostile even with reduced penalties are still way too high. I am never going to engineer a situation where I "accidentally" shoot something intentionally, and I would rather not have my regular gameplay gimped because you want to prevent an exploit that I would never use in my single player game. Shots from ships or turrets I do not control should have zero rep penalty. None at all.
If this was a multiplayer scenario I get CBJ's viewpoint, but it's not (at least not yet). Maybe Egosoft feels this exploit is so game-breaking it damages the brand. I dunno. I also haven't had enough time to do large fleet battles in 5.1, maybe the reduced consequences CBJ mentioned make this a moot issue. I'm guessing not as this is a relatively new topic.


To make sure my pilots don't inadvertently start a mini-war (that can lead to an all out war) with another faction I feel forced to do a few things:

1. I'm never IS when my ships are engaging in combat within close proximity to another faction's assets. Someday I'd love to watch my big guns fight side-by-side with a friendly faction. But right now...nope, too risky. I wonder if the new camera in 6.0 will have the same problems. Will this be a feature I can't use without worry? :(

2. Equip fleets with more accurate weaponry. Bye bye plasma, blast mortar, and flak. Hello laser fleets! There is probably an accuracy level lower than laser that is still safe but I haven't run the tests for it. Has anybody had problems with pulse or bolt turrets?
Only problem with Plasma but Plasma is the only weapon against Xenon K and I.

abisha1980
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by abisha1980 » Thu, 2. Feb 23, 20:48

just imagine your the hero of sol, you killed over 1000's xenon's solo handed.

then one day you barely scratch someone's paint job on miss fire and whole sol is your number 1 enemy of the state.
sounds total logical. do it not?.
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by GCU Grey Area » Thu, 2. Feb 23, 22:36

abisha1980 wrote:
Thu, 2. Feb 23, 20:48
just imagine your the hero of sol, you killed over 1000's xenon's solo handed.

then one day you barely scratch someone's paint job on miss fire and whole sol is your number 1 enemy of the state.
sounds total logical. do it not?.
Sounds like wild exaggeration to me. The occasional stray shot simply isn't going to do that. If you've got high rep you can get away with literal murder (e.g. assassination missions, station demolition, etc) with barely more than a slap on the wrist. Probably lose a single point of rep, some nearby warships might get a bit angry for a while, however it certainly doesn't turn the entire faction hostile. Often do such missions for main faction war guilds or SCA, VIG, etc & as long as my freighters keep passively building rep in the background it all balances out.

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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 2. Feb 23, 23:09

abisha1980 wrote:
Thu, 2. Feb 23, 20:48
just imagine your the hero of sol, you killed over 1000's xenon's solo handed.

then one day you barely scratch someone's paint job on miss fire and whole sol is your number 1 enemy of the state.
sounds total logical. do it not?.
Have you actually gone to "number 1 enemy", the -30 reputation? I have and it took a lot of intentional shooting.

I have also demolished entire Defence Platforms, very intentionally (for a reward), and the "change in reputation" was not significant.


The accidents are not punished more severely than outright massacres, are they?
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Jangulorr
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Re: Idea for situation with accidental hit making friend a Foe

Post by Jangulorr » Sun, 12. Feb 23, 15:39

InDigital wrote:
Thu, 2. Feb 23, 09:49
Eyeklops wrote:
Wed, 1. Feb 23, 19:39
Falcrack wrote:
Tue, 31. Jan 23, 16:46


I disagree with your position. The snowball effect of turning allies hostile even with reduced penalties are still way too high. I am never going to engineer a situation where I "accidentally" shoot something intentionally, and I would rather not have my regular gameplay gimped because you want to prevent an exploit that I would never use in my single player game. Shots from ships or turrets I do not control should have zero rep penalty. None at all.
If this was a multiplayer scenario I get CBJ's viewpoint, but it's not (at least not yet). Maybe Egosoft feels this exploit is so game-breaking it damages the brand. I dunno. I also haven't had enough time to do large fleet battles in 5.1, maybe the reduced consequences CBJ mentioned make this a moot issue. I'm guessing not as this is a relatively new topic.


To make sure my pilots don't inadvertently start a mini-war (that can lead to an all out war) with another faction I feel forced to do a few things:

1. I'm never IS when my ships are engaging in combat within close proximity to another faction's assets. Someday I'd love to watch my big guns fight side-by-side with a friendly faction. But right now...nope, too risky. I wonder if the new camera in 6.0 will have the same problems. Will this be a feature I can't use without worry? :(

2. Equip fleets with more accurate weaponry. Bye bye plasma, blast mortar, and flak. Hello laser fleets! There is probably an accuracy level lower than laser that is still safe but I haven't run the tests for it. Has anybody had problems with pulse or bolt turrets?
Only problem with Plasma but Plasma is the only weapon against Xenon K and I.
OH no ... Try the Burst Ray on a Shih ... glorious. But hey, that's me. Destroy all the surface elements and let anything, even your other small gimpy type ships blow it to pieces.

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