The Holding and Waiting game ...

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Jangulorr
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The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by Jangulorr » Sun, 1. Jan 23, 16:15

Now, bare with me, i'm new. I've been playing unsuccessfully for 19.3 hours according to steam.

Everything went to the crapper after hiring a pilot for my one and only ship. This pilot does not provide a happiness value ... so, I don't know why her morale was rising. Unless she gets happy when I get irritated.

If I tell her to go to a dock ... ofc she is always told to wait ... if you have no orders, what else would you do? But when I make another order or flight plan when i'm done at the station or w/e SHE DOES NOTHING! So, I'm constantly telling her to get up and let me pilot the ship. What in the heck is this about? When I tell her to go to my next destination, she wipes out the destination I want to go to and basically says she's completed the task, wipes out the path i've just made out of the station or out in space and says she's done. I'm like ... you didn't go anywhere! Get your arse to work! She gives me this dumb look and says i'm where you told me to go. I'm telling her, that was like 5(or 10) minutes ago! This is a new order! Go here. She refuses to. If I remove all orders and assignments (whether a trade order, assigned go to unknown station order, ect) I literally lose the place I wanted to go. That is a horrible way. So, I try not to have to cancel orders at all.

And this horrible cycle repeats and repeats ... So, I end up flying the ship nearly all the time myself.

I cannot figure out if she's waiting for me, and i'm in the cockpit ... why the heck is she still waiting or holding? I'm right here! GO ALREADY!!! What in the tarnations am I supposed to do? This really makes me want to give the game a low review. It's literally not enjoyable.

I've asked on discord, i've done a lot of video watching about crew management and other 'related' topics. No video on youtube or person i've talked to (including twitch) has provided me with a very good or useful information beyond clear / cancel / remove all orders.

Please. Tell me what i'm doing wrong. This has been a multiple day (3) adventure that has turned annoyingly stressful. It's a lovely game, but most of it is played in the Map Mode ... and frankly i don't see the point in getting multiple ships and pilots if this is how it's going to be when i teleport to a ship being piloted by an npc.

It's a rant, a whine and a gripe. This system (maroon protection) wasn't thought out and sucks. But after the things i've read ... they make me worry about turning it off. It's a bad design attempt at a novel and useful idea. :rant:

Alan Phipps
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by Alan Phipps » Sun, 1. Jan 23, 17:19

Moved from Tech Sp to the gameplay forum.

It might be worth reading through this thread if not already done.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

Thomas2052
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by Thomas2052 » Sun, 1. Jan 23, 19:07

They might be sticking to the 'wait' part a little too fastidiously!

In the map, if you select the craft, there should be an option for a tab that lists orders - you could then cancel the 'Dock and wait' order only.

(might need to click on the info sign to make the tab appear on the right - I think the tab looks like a list).

Alternatively, if you right click on the craft, there is a, cancel current order' only button if I remember correctly (might be worded differently).

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.
Older. Not wiser.

Jangulorr
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by Jangulorr » Mon, 2. Jan 23, 00:06

Thomas2052 wrote:
Sun, 1. Jan 23, 19:07
They might be sticking to the 'wait' part a little too fastidiously!

In the map, if you select the craft, there should be an option for a tab that lists orders - you could then cancel the 'Dock and wait' order only.

(might need to click on the info sign to make the tab appear on the right - I think the tab looks like a list).

Alternatively, if you right click on the craft, there is a, cancel current order' only button if I remember correctly (might be worded differently).

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.
Actually, that has helped immensely. Though, it's not a great way of updating the pilots orders. I feel like it could be taken care of so much simpler.

thank you SO much! I hope you have a very Blessed and Safe New Years!

Thomas2052
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by Thomas2052 » Mon, 2. Jan 23, 00:44

Glad it helped, as it was quite vague!

It's not you - the UI is a regular source of frustration for most users, and request for improvement are frequent.

Hope your game goes well and do post any further questions here - I've always found the community very helpful.

Regards
Older. Not wiser.

Jangulorr
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by Jangulorr » Mon, 2. Jan 23, 01:48

When my pilot is docked in the station (I don't recall of they're waiting or holding ... Think it's either). If I have coordinates or a destination plotted, she will not take off. I confirm there are no tasks or anything to cancel (when I go to stations I don't make plans till I'm there).

Using the map and clicking on the ship confirms a lack of other orders. Using the information panel I fail to see anything.

I have to choose a location to 'fly and wait' at before I'm able to have her fly to a plotted non-open space destination. You know ... A station, warp gate or whatever. Am I doing something wrong or missing something here?

Btw, when I make the space caviar ... Do I just sell it or is it needed for a mission? I understand it says it's a gift ... But ... Clarification is always nice.

Thank you.

Thomas2052
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by Thomas2052 » Mon, 2. Jan 23, 02:45

It might be a setting to avoid stranding you on a station if they take off without you - if you right click on the craft in the map, there might be an option to "proceed with orders', or something like that.

If you're standing in the craft, you can also talk to the pilot for the same option.

It can be disabled under global settings in the personal menu, if it is the culprit.

Space caviar might have use for
Spoiler
Show
black market missions
but someone else will have to confirm, as I've never done those.

Let us know if that sorts it, or still no luck. Regards
Older. Not wiser.

Shizzkizz
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by Shizzkizz » Mon, 2. Jan 23, 04:33

Right click the ship and select Information, then cycle through the tabs to Behaviour. Look at the orders in the list and see which one is holding your pilot up and delete it. Otherwise just talk with the pilot and Proceed with Orders.

Black Markets
Spoiler
Show
Space Caviar is used for Black Market missions which you find by entering Scan Mode near a station and scanning the signal points. The quest can be for different gift items but you do get a lot more for items gifted in the mission than you would to a trader. Your choice on how much you need the money as the quests can be elusive to find.

dtpsprt
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by dtpsprt » Mon, 2. Jan 23, 07:46

Since the answers to your (and ours many times) frustrations have been given, except that it's a good thing your pilot gets morale improvement as it will help greatly with improving her captain skills, there is another use of space caniar that has not yet been mentioned:
Spoiler
Show
It is needed two times in the Split plot. You can spare the second as it is a very long way in, but the first is needed almost as soon as you start it and will get you to the two ships (one not so useful, the other is a wonder of an S ship IMHO) that are offered to the player during this plot line. The first (and very useful one you get almost as soon as you start the plotline.

Jangulorr
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by Jangulorr » Wed, 4. Jan 23, 17:58

Nearly 24 hours in and starting to find enjoyment within the game. I totally see why i've seen a lot of posts about the UI being (for a lack of a better word) unconventional. It really does need cleaned up and fixed.

So, I can open the station interaction menu while docked but not piloting, but I cannot interact with 'trade' or other services. That's silly. If I accidentally click off my ship (one i'm boarded) in a different sector while trying to make a route, it'll force me to click on my ship again or bring up yet another menu within the map system to select it again.

If I plan a route while piloting a ship and get up to let the ai pilot take over ... they will NOT continue on the destination I had already planned. Which makes me do the pervious mentioned mess. lol

I have been unable to figure out how to make my pilots explore in a smaller or player sized area ... seems to be just this huge bubble that I can only minimize by moving it off the sectors map as to provide a smaller area within the sector I want searched. I mean, I did a bit of searching and travelling ... rather not search places i've already explored.

However, a good share of the navigation issues have been resolved due to y'all. I appreciate the continued assistance.

art89
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by art89 » Thu, 5. Jan 23, 05:47

Jangulorr wrote:
Wed, 4. Jan 23, 17:58
...
If I plan a route while piloting a ship and get up to let the ai pilot take over ... they will NOT continue on the destination I had already planned. Which makes me do the pervious mentioned mess. lol
...
Yes, indeed, I believe it is working as designed, and I think it is a conceptual issue you are having.
Note that in this game, there are two separate "Plot Route and fly the ship automatically (without any human input)" concepts, as follows:
#1: GUIDANCE (player-is-in-the-pilot-seat): This feature uses ship's autopilot software to automatically go to a location without you manually turning the ship and accelerating the ship etc.. Software does it all for you as long as autopilot is in "engaged (=enabled)" setting.
#2: SHIP ORDERS (player-is-NOT-in-the-pilot-seat): This uses the "hired AI pilot" (the one with skill levels indicated with star icons) to take the ship to a location based on 'Fly To' Orders (and/or Behaviours).

* GUIDANCE is there to purely help YOU, the human player. It is a convenience feature. It helps guide (drive/fly) your ship automatically. It is not there for the AI pilot. AI pilot does not see it/know about it. For that reason, AI pilot cannot "continue" this navigation, when you get up from the captain seat.
* SHIP ORDERS is there for you (as the owner of the ship) to manage your assets (ships/fleets) in a manner of individual orders. One single individual order or a list of individual orders.
Order #1: Go to location Argon Prime.
Order #2: Go to location Earth.
Order #3: Go to location Mars.
You can reorder these individual orders.
* SHIP DEFAULT BEHAVIOURS (just mentioning as a FYI) is similar but it is automatically performed when there are no orders queued. For example, you can set a ship to "Dock at Location X" when it completes its "list of orders".
You can find more information on SHIP ORDERS and SHIP DEFAULT BEHAVIOURS in the wiki, here: https://egosoft.com:8444/confluence/dis ... Behaviours
Also, in general, consulting the wiki would be an efficient way to learn about this game which is more complex than average PC game.

Your issue is, as briefly mentioned above, is mix & matching systems which are conceptually separate.
When you are the pilot you set a course using option #1.
When you get up from pilot seat, and the AI captain takes over, your plotted course is completely ignored and option #2 is now enabled (explained above). If you want AI pilot to take the ship somewhere, simply ORDER them to do that, using the SHIP ORDERS system.

With regard to "losing destination location on the map", yes, you are right, it does disappear when you get up although it is not a bug.
It happens because you the human player are no longer in direct control of a ship, so the game thinks you no longer need a yellow guidance-line which is probably true.
A quality of life improvement could be a new feature such as "add a map bookmark for a location in space" - we do not have it today though.
So what can you do as a workaround is the following:
If you know you are about to get up from the pilot seat to let the AI pilot fly, and you know that you will soon lose your guidance-to-location (YELLOW COLOURED) plotted path,
1) Just open the map, looking at the destination (the end of the yellow guidance line) and putting it in the dead center of your map, zooming in as much as you can,
2) Staying on the map screen, hit CTRL+D keyboard shortcut to "leave pilot seat". At this point in time, you will lose the yellow line but you know that it was in the dead center of your current map view.
3) Staying on the map screen, open Your Owned Ships list in the left hand side of the map screen and click on the ship you are currently flying on. Then right click on the dead center of your current map view and choose FLY TO option.
This way you do not "lose" the location in space, despite losing the yellow guidance line, you quickly get a new "ship order line (blue line)" back.

Now, if it is the order that is at the top of the "ship orders" queue, then it will be executed by the AI pilot.
If it is not at the top, it will be done when all previous orders are completed so you may wish to review SHIP ORDERS list and move it to top.

* A note on the "AI Pilot Waits for your PROCEED instruction" situation: You may need to right click on the ship in player assets list and then give the order 'PROCEED WITH CURRENT ORDERS NOW' (or something similarly worded, as I do not have the game up & running now).
You can also give this same command via Communication menu.
You can also give this same command directly as you are physically in the ship.
Then they will start executing it.

* A note on the "ship is not doing anything just sitting there" situation: I believe there is a bug, sometimes (rarely) the top order simply does not get executed. For example you gave it a command to "Fly To Argon Prime" but it's not doing it.
Workaround for this bug:
1) Simply, give a new 'Fly To' order by right clicking on any other location in the map
2) Then move that new and temporary 'Fly To' order to the top of the Ship Orders Queue by left clicking on the move-order-one-level-higher-in-the-orders-queue button (you may need to click that multiple times).
This somehow "wakes up" the AI pilot and it start executing the order.
3) Then you can delete the new and temporary Fly To Order from top-of-the-ship-orders-queue, so the AI pilot falls back to the next order which is the one it was supposed to do long ago (in this example Fly To Argon Prime).

Note that when you take the captain seat of a ship (i.e.: when you interrupt the AI pilot), all those queued Ship Orders list is not lost. It does stay stored. When you eventually evacuate the seat, the AI pilot will still have those orders and will continue executing them.
Jangulorr wrote:
Wed, 4. Jan 23, 17:58
...
I have been unable to figure out how to make my pilots explore in a smaller or player sized area ... seems to be just this huge bubble that I can only minimize by moving it off the sectors map as to provide a smaller area within the sector I want searched. I mean, I did a bit of searching and travelling ... rather not search places i've already explored.
I do not understand what you mean with "player sized area", but I do understand the other part "I want my pilots to explore a smaller area".
You can make your pilots explore as small or as big as you want by just manually queuing a bunch of 'Fly To' Ship Orders, and your AI Pilot will fly the ship to those locations, revealing/exploring them as they go.
With this approach, you are NOT relying on any explore command, and thus there is no built-in explore-bubble that does not fit your requirements.
Instead, you are manually creating these "waypoints" so of course you can make them as large or as small as you like. To do this:
1) Open the map, in player assets list, pick your AI-pilot controlled "scout ship", then in the map view, open the target sector that needs to be explored, and right click to the start location you want explored and create the first FLY TO waypoint
2) Mouse over to the next waypoint location, hold down the CTRL key then mouse click which will create the next waypoint. (I am not in game now, and I cannot check if it is the left or right mouse button).
3) Continue the CTRL+MouseClick waypoint creation to quickly add (many) more waypoints. If memory servers right, the SHIP ORDERS QUEUE limit is about 35, which is plenty.

Side note/Tip: Consider purchasing a 'Pegasus Vanguard' ship, it is available from PAR/Paranid Wharf and is very fast, thus does the exploration much quicker than most ships. When money is not an issue upgrade it to the max so it becomes even faster, I think you will love its speed.

Jangulorr
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by Jangulorr » Sat, 28. Jan 23, 22:29

art89

You nailed all the issues quite well. You even answered a question I was going to ask ... 'what is the best ship to use for exploring? Because the Discoverer is really lacking.'

Seems the community here is more helpful than on the Discord. I've asked a fair share of questions and typically don't get response's. Oh well. I just keep watching videos and trying to figure stuff out myself. However ... do you know a way to mass collect deployables? I've tossed down a hefty amount of Mk2 Laser Turrets i'd like to reposition. I tried shift click to select the turrets then right click to collect deployables, but the ship only collects ONE. lol. They hate me. lol

dtpsprt
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by dtpsprt » Sat, 28. Jan 23, 22:39

Jangulorr wrote:
Wed, 4. Jan 23, 17:58
...................

I have been unable to figure out how to make my pilots explore in a smaller or player sized area ... seems to be just this huge bubble that I can only minimize by moving it off the sectors map as to provide a smaller area within the sector I want searched. I mean, I did a bit of searching and travelling ... rather not search places i've already explored.

However, a good share of the navigation issues have been resolved due to y'all. I appreciate the continued assistance.
You can also click on the + sign on The Explore command given to the ship which will allow you to maximize (up to 30 km) or minimize (down to 1 km) the exploring area, default is 250 km. I use the max to explore a hole sector and I usually use 80 km to find the drill and the Osprey...

EDIT: moving the search buble outside of the sector you see is almost meaningless because the sectors expand as your ships reach their borders!!! Sector limit from what I have seen is some 20,000 km from the sector centre!!!

art89
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by art89 » Wed, 1. Feb 23, 01:16

Jangulorr wrote:
Sat, 28. Jan 23, 22:29
do you know a way to mass collect deployables? I've tossed down a hefty amount of Mk2 Laser Turrets i'd like to reposition. I tried shift click to select the turrets then right click to collect deployables, but the ship only collects ONE. lol. They hate me. lol
Unfortunately I do not know of a super fast way.

In the left hand side panel, switching to "show all objects" option (as opposed to show all player owned items) and then also switching to deployable objects sub option (in the most right side option, in the left hand side menu) provides slightly more efficient way of collecting tens of deployable items but it is still many clicks and still very time consuming.

It's efficiency gain is not much but it has a side benefit of letting you see objects by Hit Points left. This way, you can collect low HP laser towers and instantly redeploy them on the same spot. The act of taking them on board a ship will automatically reset their HP to full HP levels. At the cost of human time (micro management to order AI pilot to collect and redeploy), you get free repairs which equates to free resources.

Unless I am missing a better method of mass collecting, I would say it is a UI deficiency (probably devs and testers do not collect and redeploy tens of items). I hope they improve it in the patch accompanying the new DLC.

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Dj_FRedy
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by Dj_FRedy » Wed, 1. Feb 23, 04:30

Jangulorr wrote:
Sat, 28. Jan 23, 22:29
do you know a way to mass collect deployables? I've tossed down a hefty amount of Mk2 Laser Turrets i'd like to reposition. I tried shift click to select the turrets then right click to collect deployables, but the ship only collects ONE. lol. They hate me. lol
art89 wrote:
Wed, 1. Feb 23, 01:16
Unfortunately I do not know of a super fast way.
Select a ship, right click on it, Orders/Collect Deployable, mouse cursor changes to 'target'. Press shift and drag the left mouse button over the map to select the deployables.
"All my contributions to the Technical Support and Public Beta Feedback sections will be concise and to the point, no diatribes, that's what the other sections are for".
Thank you for your efforts.

GCU Grey Area
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Re: The Holding and Waiting game ...

Post by GCU Grey Area » Wed, 1. Feb 23, 09:44

Dj_FRedy wrote:
Wed, 1. Feb 23, 04:30
Jangulorr wrote:
Sat, 28. Jan 23, 22:29
do you know a way to mass collect deployables? I've tossed down a hefty amount of Mk2 Laser Turrets i'd like to reposition. I tried shift click to select the turrets then right click to collect deployables, but the ship only collects ONE. lol. They hate me. lol
art89 wrote:
Wed, 1. Feb 23, 01:16
Unfortunately I do not know of a super fast way.
Select a ship, right click on it, Orders/Collect Deployable, mouse cursor changes to 'target'. Press shift and drag the left mouse button over the map to select the deployables.
Alternatively, if you want to collect them with your own ship, hold shift & drag (as above) to select all laser towers. Then right-click & select 'deactivate all'. Finally activate cargo magnet to draw all laser towers within range (varies depending on ship size) into your ship.

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