Do player owned ships still use lasertowers?

[LameFox]

I give these to my traders because in older versions of the game they would drop them while fleeing from enemies, but for a while now it has felt like a total waste. I can't even remember the last time they dropped one without being told to. Has this behaviour changed? Is there any point equipping them with these?

[dtpsprt]

+1 to that

[Metran]

It still have it's uses to have your traders carry deployables. Like when you get a notification that your trader is under attack you can manually drop the Laser Towers or what else you might have (FoF mines or non at all, trust me ). However it's only a viable strategy in the early game, as the game progresses you'll be using bigger and bigger traders (or outright Destroyers as traders) which makes the use of silly deployables pointless and they'll be ineffective and your trader so slow that, even for the brief moment, attackers will be on top of your trader in no time, anyway - what's the point?

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

So far I have used them in a totally manual way above all to defend the mining ships from kha'ak or Xenon, but I have hardly used them with traders, who can easily escape from any attacker.

Instead I use them very often with my fighter fleets like this:

- Small squadron of fighters (5-10 units) with 20 mk1 laser turrets each
- I give the order to attack a K (for example).
- I'm waiting for some of them to take shield damage.
- I'm putting the game on pause.
- I select all the fighters and use the flee command.
- I remove the pause.
- Fighters before escaping automatically release 1 laser turret each.
- I'll pause again.
- I cancel all orders.
- I attack K again
- I perform the above sequence 4 or 5 more times.
- I deployed a lot of laser turrets pretty fast.

For example, this way, but using 50 fighters with 50 turrets each, I was able to deploy about 600 laser turrets during the VIG station attack mission and was able to defend myself against the horde of 300-400 fighters who attempted to attack my fighters.

Also, in the flee command, if you look at the advanced order options, you can choose 5 ways to escape.
They have not been explained anywhere at the moment, and I honestly have not had the desire to test their operation, but they will probably have to do with the ship's deployable devices and sooner or later they will be implemented more clearly and effectively.

Ultimately, I don't find these devices entirely useless.

[LameFox]

Depends what trade ships you use, some can outrun things on their own, others need the distraction to live. Since I don't want to always baby them I used to prefer giving them ~5 towers to drop if threatened (more for larger, slower ships). Only now, it seems they will never use even a single one, under any circumstance. I don't know if it's a bug, or intended change. I do vaguely recall the alternative flee styles but are we meant to choose them manually every time? That doesn't seem any better than having to deploy things myself.

Of the ones that can flee fast enough, you also have the problem that they're completely blind to what's actually threatening them and may flee directly into it. A larger ship may have time to kill them in that case. I'm in the process of just converting all of my free traders to Barbarossas with full L plasma, and 2 M missile launchers with a full load of heavy swarm missiles. Their damage output is still lower than your average SCA destroyer but I hope that essentially they will be able to kill whatever they can't outrun. Still, this is pretty expensive and I'd rather not be functionally limited to a single kind of ship to avoid losses, which is important with roles that need skilled captains.

Mines sadly are no good to me at all as I don't want to teleport to every ship that gets attacked. Until they work in low attention I just act as if they do not exist.

[blackphoenixx]

They still drop them when you give the flee command manually, but they haven't done it during auto-flee since 4.0 at least.

Still, this is pretty expensive and I'd rather not be functionally limited to a single kind of ship to avoid losses, which is important with roles that need skilled captains.

The cheapest way to avoid losing high-skill traders to pirates is setting them to comply.
The cost is ridiculously minor because even destroyers have tiny cargo bays and your traders only drop as much as the pirate can carry.

You can still set up patrols and such to take them out (fire override to kill SCA is the default for all my combat ships and stations), but this way your traders are safe even if your patrols miss one.

Dropping part of your cargo may matter early game (during which you presumably have few enough traders that you can order them manually) but by the time you can afford L traders any losses from complying with pirates are a drop in the bucket.

[Imperial Good]

They should still use them if they try to flee in one of the modes that uses them. However, this does not appear to happen too frequently.

In my experience the ships usually are too willing to fight to the death that they never enter flee mode so end up not using them. Some people have reported that if you make the response to pirate harrasement and unauthorised attacks explicitly to flee that they are more likely to use them.

The cheapest way to avoid losing high-skill traders to pirates is setting them to comply.

You still lose a ton even with this response because the pirates take uninterruptable orders, such as docking, as non-compliance so blow up your ship either during the docking procedure or while the ship undocks from the station.

[LameFox]

There's also cases where Xenon K's randomly wander far into 'safe' space and kill a bunch of trade ships on their way to wherever they're going.

I do give all my traders the 'escape' response as default to both pirates and attacks however and still do not see them ever use the flee mode(s?) that drop lasertowers. I would rather this was just some kind of setting I think.

[blackphoenixx]

The cheapest way to avoid losing high-skill traders to pirates is setting them to comply.

You still lose a ton even with this response because the pirates take uninterruptable orders, such as docking, as non-compliance so blow up your ship either during the docking procedure or while the ship undocks from the station.

I haven't lost a single trader to pirates in 200+ hours of game time.
So your scenario may be possible but it certainly doesn't happen often.
I also don't see how setting them to comply would make a difference for that since afaik fleeing can't interrupt a docking maneuver either.

[Imperial Good]

So your scenario may be possible but it certainly doesn't happen often.

I also don't see how setting them to comply would make a difference for that since afaik fleeing can't interrupt a docking maneuver either.

I lose about 2 to 4 traders per hour due to this issue. All traders are set to comply with the pirates.

[GCU Grey Area]

I lose about 2 to 4 traders per hour due to this issue. All traders are set to comply with the pirates.

What sort of freighters do you use & how are they equipped? Maybe that's the difference.

My experience has been much the same as blackphoenixx. I almost exclusively use L freighters & mod engines & chassis for extra speed (usually Reaver & Polisher mods respectively). It's exceptionally rare for me to lose freighters to pirates, since they always give a polite warning while they're still too far away to do much of anything. More than sufficient time for me to assess the situation & give my freighters new orders if necessary, e.g. insert a fly & wait order (to evade the pirate), or find another customer for whatever they're hauling that's in the opposite direction.

Only time I've lost a significant numbers of freighters when they were near stations was in a game where I was simply too aggressive with FAF. Rep dropped below -24, they switched into kill everything mode & stopped even asking my ships to drop cargo. That did create a bit of a problem - FAF Rattlers could end up hanging around a station with particularly good prices & slaughter every one of my freighters that got a trade run to that station.

[Imperial Good]

What sort of freighters do you use & how are they equipped? Maybe that's the difference.

Baldrics (TER) with mk3 TER shields, mk3 TER travel engines.

Usually are lost when selling supplies to SCA stations or other stations in lawless sectors or Teladi (largely lawless...) sectors. Despite delivering supplies to them the SCA wait until they are in the process of docking to demand they drop cargo and then blow them up because they cannot comply. Most losses are for Missile Component and Smart Chip delivery ships. Worst case I seen of this was a Minotaur Raider who was so annoyed that a ship docking with a TEL Trade Station could not comply that they decided to go on a rampage and kill 5 other traders of mine that were parked outside the trade station while looking for trades.

Obviously, there are additional measures one can take to reduce the losses such as blacklists. But that is then using additional measures because it happens too often otherwise.

[GCU Grey Area]

Baldrics (TER) with mk3 TER shields, mk3 TER travel engines.

Did wonder if you were using M's. One of the advantages of L freighters is they only seem to attract the attention of pirate destroyers. Such ships are fairly easy to evade, particularly so if you install appropriate ship mods on the freighters to improve travel mode speed.

[blackphoenixx]

What sort of freighters do you use & how are they equipped? Maybe that's the difference.

Usually are lost when selling supplies to SCA stations or other stations in lawless sectors or Teladi (largely lawless...) sectors. Despite delivering supplies to them the SCA wait until they are in the process of docking to demand they drop cargo and then blow them up because they cannot comply. Most losses are for Missile Component and Smart Chip delivery ships. Worst case I seen of this was a Minotaur Raider who was so annoyed that a ship docking with a TEL Trade Station could not comply that they decided to go on a rampage and kill 5 other traders of mine that were parked outside the trade station while looking for trades.

Obviously, there are additional measures one can take to reduce the losses such as blacklists. But that is then using additional measures because it happens too often otherwise.

I am blacklisting all trade with SCA, maybe that's what makes the difference.

Baldrics (TER) with mk3 TER shields, mk3 TER travel engines.

Did wonder if you were using M's. One of the advantages of L freighters is they only seem to attract the attention of pirate destroyers. Such ships are fairly easy to evade, particularly so if you install appropriate ship mods on the freighters to improve travel mode speed.

M traders attracting attention from pirate Minotaurs is only really a problem with the slow ones though.
A Demeter Sentinel or anything faster outruns them and with TER Mk3 shields they're tanky enough to easily survive fleeing right past one, so it's not really an issue unless you insist on using the slow ones.

[Imperial Good]

Did wonder if you were using M's. One of the advantages of L freighters is they only seem to attract the attention of pirate destroyers. Such ships are fairly easy to evade, particularly so if you install appropriate ship mods on the freighters to improve travel mode speed.

I have only lost 1 L trader so far, and that was due to incompetent Terran police not stopping a FAF Rattlesnake that made it into Sol. L traders cannot replace M traders as far as distribution to NPCs go due to NPC stations often having small demands or being faster to access by taking the highway ring. Having a M trader deliver 200 missile components is fine, but having a L trader do the same is kind of a waste as not only does it take longer it is even less loaded doing so.

A Demeter Sentinel or anything faster outruns them and with TER Mk3 shields they're tanky enough to easily survive fleeing right past one, so it's not really an issue unless you insist on using the slow ones.

Not too sure how much it would help in this situation as a lot of the kills are while the ship is docking (executing critical order) so cannot flee. I do agree that chances are I would lose fewer of them using that ship but this playthrough I was limiting myself to Terran only.

I am blacklisting all trade with SCA, maybe that's what makes the difference.

Probably. However, that falls under having to take additional measures to protect traders.

Alternative measures include strategically placed assets to discourage pirates, befriending SCA, blockading FAF, e.t.c.

[GCU Grey Area]

I have only lost 1 L trader so far, and that was due to incompetent Terran police not stopping a FAF Rattlesnake that made it into Sol. L traders cannot replace M traders as far as distribution to NPCs go due to NPC stations often having small demands or being faster to access by taking the highway ring. Having a M trader deliver 200 missile components is fine, but having a L trader do the same is kind of a waste as not only does it take longer it is even less loaded doing so.

Guess M's are fine for the less bulky commodities such as missile components, albeit quite vulnerable if attacked. However many of my most profitable trades are in products that I consider a bit too bulky to be effectively shipped in an M (Adv Electronics, Turret Components, Hull Parts, etc). A substantial amount of my business is with shipyards & station construction sites, which often need such stuff in quite large quantities. Also fewer, bigger ships means less exposure overall to pirate attacks, so I get hassled a whole lot less by anxious freighter captains.

[dtpsprt]

What sort of freighters do you use & how are they equipped? Maybe that's the difference.

Baldrics (TER) with mk3 TER shields, mk3 TER travel engines.

...........................

I think the problem lies mostly on the TER (in general) of your engines, especially the Travel ones. Also them being Terran ships does not help.

In general Terran ships are notoriously slow, their engines the same and any Travel engine takes a long time to enter Travel Drive. You also loose the "advantage" (if it can be called one) of faster entering Travel Drive which is way more prominent in Normal and Combat engines...

I always use the ARG ones (2nd faster speed after SPL with the 1st faster Travel speed), because of their traveldrive speed advantage and decent load and attack time... Never resort to "Comply", no need to...

Of course, in any case, if they are caught on docking/undocking they are dead meat

[Imperial Good]

Also fewer, bigger ships means less exposure overall to pirate attacks, so I get hassled a whole lot less by anxious freighter captains.

You can disable the notification in the personal tab where you set the default responses. Once you reach a certain stage it is kind of required since otherwise you would be alerted about a pirate every few seconds.

I always use the ARG ones (2nd faster speed after SPL with the 1st faster Travel speed), because of their traveldrive speed advantage and decent load and attack time... Never resort to "Comply", no need to...

Argon engines have the third fastest/slowest flight speed (below SPL and PAR). TER engines have the fastest travel attack time so despite having the slowest travel speed they can win out in shorter journeys without highways.

I cannot really justify full combat engines on all the traders as the slower travel speed would mean having to field significantly more M sized traders. Considering I likely field thousands of M sized traders this would be a huge increase in the order of hundreds in total.

[dtpsprt]

.....................

I always use the ARG ones (2nd faster speed after SPL with the 1st faster Travel speed), because of their traveldrive speed advantage and decent load and attack time... Never resort to "Comply", no need to...

Argon engines have the third fastest/slowest flight speed (below SPL and PAR). TER engines have the fastest travel attack time so despite having the slowest travel speed they can win out in shorter journeys without highways.

I cannot really justify full combat engines on all the traders as the slower travel speed would mean having to field significantly more M sized traders. Considering I likely field thousands of M sized traders this would be a huge increase in the order of hundreds in total.

I stand corrected in the ARG engine flight speed, of course.

The slower travel speed of TER engines is what causes the frighters to be "caught" especially since no ship uses highways when "Fleeing" (as far as I know, they use Superhighways and Gates), the slower spooling time of Travel Engines does not help either. This is why I prefer Combat Engines. It's about the time it will take the freighter to spool up Travel Drive after it's been asked from the Pirate to give up the cargo. Of course, disabling the warning in the options menu is a must, as the ship will do nothing for the crucial 30 sec waiting for the player's "guidance".

[Imperial Good]

The slower travel speed of TER engines is what causes the frighters to be "caught" especially since no ship uses highways when "Fleeing" (as far as I know, they use Superhighways and Gates), the slower spooling time of Travel Engines does not help either. This is why I prefer Combat Engines. It's about the time it will take the freighter to spool up Travel Drive after it's been asked from the Pirate to give up the cargo. Of course, disabling the warning in the options menu is a must, as the ship will do nothing for the crucial 30 sec waiting for the player's "guidance".

Pirates are not an issue near highways or in open space as your ships can give them their cargo to leave them alone. I lose significantly more M traders to KHK or XEN (before they seemly broke) in open space than to pirates. Most of the pirate kills are around stations, and of those a significant fraction are near SCA stations.

Early game (first few traders) combat engines are probably a good idea as you cannot afford to swallow the lost cargo. But when you are dealing with hundreds of thousands of hull parts being made and consumed per hour, the odd 500 or so that pirate take is trival.