Pirate Faction Relationships

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Xkuka
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Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by Xkuka » Wed, 17. Aug 22, 06:43

Is there anywhere an updodate guide for the pirate factions, including VIG? Its a bit frustrating that there seems to be no possibility to increase relations with the SCA. Older posts say they are locked, but why? I joined them, make missions for them, yet i cant improve my standings. And the VIG are really annoying with their Barbarossas, just found out, that you need 10+ with them so they dont bother your traders, until then every shot on them hurts relationship. At the same time i can board any SCA ship right next to their headquarters and use them as an early alternative to an own shipyard and they do nothing but send new ships for my marines to take over...
Makes no sense at all...
While i really like the current Xenon agressiveness that keeps me really busy, it is annoying that my attention is constantly split to deal with pirates and i have no way to solve this problem for the long term. Yes the VIG situation can be solved passively with a trading fleet, and the SCA are not really effective and if you have fast S/M or L traders you can actually turn off notifications and set traders to flee, but that isnt satisfying. Feels so halfbaked and smells like lots of missed potential in gameplay and story telling...
And the way the VIG behave is actually cool, you know, its a Syndicate after all. They shoot at you and rob your stuff, and if you attempt to defend yourself they also shoot and rob your family, thats just how it is^^ Thats kinda how it should be with all the pirate factions.
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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by LameFox » Wed, 17. Aug 22, 09:03

I suspect SCA are meant to be a very loosely affiliated faction. Like a union for pirates or something, working together to a limited extent but mostly independent. I am not sure the game really understands the concept of not having a faction at all, even visitor ships when ventures worked had factions, so maybe giving them a locked faction is the closest thing it can do.
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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 17. Aug 22, 10:01

There is a very late-game opportunity to befriend the SCA that involves some difficult terraforming. It may be rather too late by then since you are probably already at a corporation mogul type of level.
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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by spankahontis » Wed, 17. Aug 22, 13:42

LameFox wrote:
Wed, 17. Aug 22, 09:03
I suspect SCA are meant to be a very loosely affiliated faction. Like a union for pirates or something, working together to a limited extent but mostly independent. I am not sure the game really understands the concept of not having a faction at all, even visitor ships when ventures worked had factions, so maybe giving them a locked faction is the closest thing it can do.

They're kind of like a 'Citizen Faction' for Pirates, you shoot at one, you make it hostile, but other citizen ships don't care.
You shoot a burglar in your home, does that make all the other burglars in the town want to come after you? Kind of that thinking for the Scale Plate Pact.
So prefer them the way they are, with no inherent leadership structure, just a bunch of small bosses like the one we engaged in the Hatikvah Plot line.
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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by Xkuka » Fri, 19. Aug 22, 01:06

Alan Phipps wrote:
Wed, 17. Aug 22, 10:01
There is a very late-game opportunity to befriend the SCA that involves some difficult terraforming. It may be rather too late by then since you are probably already at a corporation mogul type of level.
Haha what is late game really? That is something in this game only defined by your own goals, since there is no inherent narrative to follow through except those loose story lines that are mostly only starters for certain activities.
And yes, its rather hard not to become some sort of mogule. But in this safe i am more sort of an independent fleet admiral, seeking to contain the Xenon and find out about the mysteries of the galaxy^^
And thats why its so interesting to me now dealing with the SCA in a profitable manner that dosnt feel cheesy. And funny thing is, about the VIG, is was actually about actively improving my stats with them, but i just loaded in the game and got spammed with notes about reputation losses. Turns out a raiding party of them happened to make "business" in one of those sectors where i stationed one of my Xenon reaction forces and this raiding party got decimated, unintentionally of course haha. Now i am close to war with the VIG and not so sure if i want to put in the effort in this. They dont have much to offer anyways, and it might be more fun just erasing them and taking over their sectors for good. But i am hesitant since i also wanted to go through the new story lines for once so i can check that box for a future creative start setting... sigh might not happening in this safe^^
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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by Xkuka » Fri, 19. Aug 22, 01:22

LameFox wrote:
Wed, 17. Aug 22, 09:03
I suspect SCA are meant to be a very loosely affiliated faction. Like a union for pirates or something, working together to a limited extent but mostly independent. I am not sure the game really understands the concept of not having a faction at all, even visitor ships when ventures worked had factions, so maybe giving them a locked faction is the closest thing it can do.
I get that point, but it is not explaining the fact that you can have business with them but not improve reputation, since they are a faction that offers jobs and even got benefits for a good reputation. To me it feels more like their implementation as a faction is simply not completed. And its a shame because it would be pretty cool for a pirate sort of play through having a "loosely affiliated" sort of faction you can turn to as a pirate yourself, and make yourself a name or something. And another point is, the SCA is not the only pirate faction, but none of them has any significance.
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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by Nanook » Fri, 19. Aug 22, 19:10

I think of the SCA as more an independent collection of franchises. While they don't go out of their way to help other SCA members, they also don't actively fight each other either. I also wouldn't call them a 'union' for the same reasons. In the SCA world, it's every group for themselves, so I wouldn't even class them as a 'faction' at all.
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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by Xkuka » Sat, 10. Sep 22, 21:39

Nanook wrote:
Fri, 19. Aug 22, 19:10
I think of the SCA as more an independent collection of franchises. While they don't go out of their way to help other SCA members, they also don't actively fight each other either. I also wouldn't call them a 'union' for the same reasons. In the SCA world, it's every group for themselves, so I wouldn't even class them as a 'faction' at all.
But that is kind of a selfmade lore that actually does not fit into the picture the game presents in the HAT plot. Where the SCA indeed presents itself as a coherent faction, demanding respect towards their leaders. Thats more like the opposite of an independent bunch of random people, and equals more the picture i have about the VIG. :gruebel:
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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by Imperial Good » Sat, 10. Sep 22, 22:46

VIG you can exploit trade number to power level rep after which they stop pirating you and even let you ship food around.

SCA you unlock reputation for by terraforming Scale Plate Green.

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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by Caedes91 » Sun, 11. Sep 22, 02:27

Permanent way to stop these pirates from new ships without terraforming:

Destroy all their ships you can find in the galaxy. Then proceed to block all Argon-, Antigone-, Teladi-, and Ministry of Finance wharves and shipyards. To do this have ships docked on the building pads/modules until the limit. Need about 8 L-ships and 628 s- and m-ships (Don't remember the exact splits between s and m-ships of the fabrication modules) to fill both internal and external storage space. As long as the ships stay docked, no new ones can be built. Cheapest minimum loadout ships are enough. Group them into fleets via mimic behaviour for tidier ship list.

The reason you do this: SCA uses said shipyards and wharves to build their ships. So simply destroying the ships won't stop them from harassing you ever.
Argon and Antigone builds minotaur raiders and behemoths for them, while Teladi and MIN build kestrel, and phoenix.

For Fallen families pirates: Do the same with the Free families wharf and shipyard. That is where these pesky motherfuckers come from. Capture the remaining FRF Dragon raiders and Rattlesnake.
Important! If you care about reputation: Only capture them, NOT destroy them. Currently (and certainly forever) EGOSOFT gave no possibility to repair/improve rep with Fallen families. Unlike SCA, rep is not locked. Only goes downhill.

Vigor Syndicate the same. Use the opportunity in the Tides of Avarice plot mission to wipe them off all at once without consequences. Before that, dock their wharves and shipyards, same as above. Only difference: For VIG you only need S- and L-ships, ToA did not add any M-ship outside of Astrid, limited to 2 per playthrough. Worst X4 DLC to date alone for that imo :evil: . Pay them off, and have +20 relation after the genocide with them again.

Consequences: Argon, Antigone, Teladi, MIN and VIG cannot produce ships anymore. To circumvent this, let them buy ships from your shipyards, but remeber to blacklist SCA, FAF and VIG from your shipyards. Especially VIG, **** these assholes, let them starve to death or sell them food at max price to give them a taste of their own medicine. Is overall a positive in my opinion, because otherwise, they wouldn't order from you at 150% markup :twisted:

I am not sure, but if you do that, AI will slowly disassemble their stations. In my game the AI removes their own stations, even in sectors they own. Can somebody from Egosoft confirm this?

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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by grapedog » Sun, 11. Sep 22, 19:56

Caedes91 wrote:
Sun, 11. Sep 22, 02:27
Permanent way to stop these pirates from new ships without terraforming:

Destroy all their ships you can find in the galaxy. Then proceed to block all Argon-, Antigone-, Teladi-, and Ministry of Finance wharves and shipyards. To do this have ships docked on the building pads/modules until the limit. Need about 8 L-ships and 628 s- and m-ships (Don't remember the exact splits between s and m-ships of the fabrication modules) to fill both internal and external storage space. As long as the ships stay docked, no new ones can be built. Cheapest minimum loadout ships are enough. Group them into fleets via mimic behaviour for tidier ship list.

The reason you do this: SCA uses said shipyards and wharves to build their ships. So simply destroying the ships won't stop them from harassing you ever.
Argon and Antigone builds minotaur raiders and behemoths for them, while Teladi and MIN build kestrel, and phoenix.
I'm pretty sure there is a mechanic in the game that will still cause SCA ships to spawn at gates.

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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by Imperial Good » Mon, 12. Sep 22, 05:11

Caedes91 wrote:
Sun, 11. Sep 22, 02:27
The reason you do this: SCA uses said shipyards and wharves to build their ships. So simply destroying the ships won't stop them from harassing you ever.
Argon and Antigone builds minotaur raiders and behemoths for them, while Teladi and MIN build kestrel, and phoenix.
SCA ships are spawned in, being one of the few cases where that mechanic is still used. As such this method does not work for them. Only way to stop SCA pirates is to befriend them.
Caedes91 wrote:
Sun, 11. Sep 22, 02:27
For Fallen families pirates: Do the same with the Free families wharf and shipyard. That is where these pesky motherfuckers come from. Capture the remaining FRF Dragon raiders and Rattlesnake.
Important! If you care about reputation: Only capture them, NOT destroy them. Currently (and certainly forever) EGOSOFT gave no possibility to repair/improve rep with Fallen families. Unlike SCA, rep is not locked. Only goes downhill.
If you do not care about reputation you can set up a fleet to shipyard and wharf camp them, killing them immediately upon construction. FRF does not seem to mind you doing this that much.
Caedes91 wrote:
Sun, 11. Sep 22, 02:27
Vigor Syndicate the same. Use the opportunity in the Tides of Avarice plot mission to wipe them off all at once without consequences. Before that, dock their wharves and shipyards, same as above. Only difference: For VIG you only need S- and L-ships, ToA did not add any M-ship outside of Astrid, limited to 2 per playthrough. Worst X4 DLC to date alone for that imo . Pay them off, and have +20 relation after the genocide with them again.
As they are a normal faction you can use the normal faction reputation power levelling tactics. Most common of which is to have scouts repeat order sell them individual units of energy cells. Once above 15 or so reputation they stop pirating your assets and after the 20+ ceremony they even let you ship food and water around.

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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by Treycore » Thu, 15. Sep 22, 00:48

Xkuka wrote:
Wed, 17. Aug 22, 06:43
Is there anywhere an updodate guide for the pirate factions, including VIG? Its a bit frustrating that there seems to be no possibility to increase relations with the SCA. Older posts say they are locked, but why? I joined them, make missions for them, yet i cant improve my standings. And the VIG are really annoying with their Barbarossas, just found out, that you need 10+ with them so they dont bother your traders, until then every shot on them hurts relationship. At the same time i can board any SCA ship right next to their headquarters and use them as an early alternative to an own shipyard and they do nothing but send new ships for my marines to take over...
Makes no sense at all...
While i really like the current Xenon agressiveness that keeps me really busy, it is annoying that my attention is constantly split to deal with pirates and i have no way to solve this problem for the long term. Yes the VIG situation can be solved passively with a trading fleet, and the SCA are not really effective and if you have fast S/M or L traders you can actually turn off notifications and set traders to flee, but that isnt satisfying. Feels so halfbaked and smells like lots of missed potential in gameplay and story telling...
And the way the VIG behave is actually cool, you know, its a Syndicate after all. They shoot at you and rob your stuff, and if you attempt to defend yourself they also shoot and rob your family, thats just how it is^^ Thats kinda how it should be with all the pirate factions.
Unlock terraforming then liberate Scaleplate Green and terraform it and then SCA will join you with all their assets... There are plenty of solutions in this game for dealing with stuff... Just play the game and find them lol

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Re: Pirate Faction Relationships

Post by Xkuka » Thu, 15. Sep 22, 04:14

Caedes91 wrote:
Sun, 11. Sep 22, 02:27
Permanent way to stop these pirates from new ships without terraforming:
Bro, thats an action plan hahaha

For the time being, i use the mod sector satelites which allows me to unmask SCA ships in sectors where i own stations, which makes it possible for my assets to attack them. I have all my ship production Nopileos Fortune VI and a guarding fleet between the gates. Fire auth set to all sector forces to be merciless against SCA, no SCA ship gets the chance to empty my station cargo to space and then let it despawn ever again^^

Soon i will replace most traders with Barbarossas, because the Xenon are a much larger threat to everything. Oh and i am using VRO, and right now the current agressivness paired with the stronger Xenon L turrets from VRO make them a real plague. One single Xenon I, combined with the nonstop flood of Xenon fighters are simply too much for the inflexible faction AI. And at times you see 3 of them in one sector and many of their Ls on top. Only the Teladi in the east and the Terrans in the west are somewhat able to keep them in check because they are not directly in their way and dont fight wars against someone, everyone else is busy fighting each other so they totally lack the forces to, basically, do anything. If i dont help with my trade fleets all the economies collapse pretty quickly because the trade traffic is falling victim to constantly harrassing Xenon incursions.

Blocking all shipyards is no option. I keep them already barely alive.

Tharkas Cascade is partly under my control, where i soon start experimenting with the Yaki. With a mod i can sell them stations, wanna see if i can make them a real faction somehow. The plot thing to set them free is either not true or bugged...


Regarding terraforming Scale Plate Green, i guess it was mentioned before. I dont know how i should think about that. The effort is doable, but by the time it is done i wont have a need to befriend with anyone. I could already declare war against everybody and survive.
The bar to befriend with some pirates is a little high...
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