Idiots

[Nekudotayim_]

...
If you as a player approach a Xenon station the first time, did you just jump right into it? No. You did fly towards it carefully, which should be the behavior of a not so well skilled pilot. While a skilled pilot does know, what he is doing and will approach it much more perfect.

I disagree. An unskilled pilot supposedly has no knowledge of the Xenon

I think every indiviual in the X universe does know about the Xenon as there have been many threats coming from them in the history of the X universe. I will not believe that there is just one individual not knowing about the Xenon at all.

[GCU Grey Area]

I don't personally find it believable that a "0" star pilot would be so unskilled. Presumably, anyone allowed near the controls of an armed flying vehicle would at least have a few hundred hours in a simulator and a basic understanding of throttle, yaw, pitch, roll, etc. I envision 0 star pilots being fresh academy graduates. Or at least fresh simulator trainees. As a rl example,the idea that anyone would hand over the keys to something like an F-35 to some random schmuck on the street just doesn't sit right with me. But maybe it makes sense to others, I dunno. Maybe the space future is different.

That seems unlikely to me. Would imply that absolutely everyone, regardless of the job they're expected to do, receives comprehensive pilot training from this mythical academy. Vast majority of 0* pilots I use start out as service crew who have gained high morale aboard one of my freighters, miners or construction vessels. Although in practice they don't stay at 0* for long at all - I do make sure to give them an instruction manual (at least the ubiquitous basic & 1* seminars) on their way to the flight deck. Essentially those are the 'fresh simulator trainees', at least that's how they get to 2* piloting in my games. Academy graduates takes a bit longer to get going, since I have to build the academy first which takes a few days. However once that's up & running they get to start their new career as a pilot at 4*.

[Ragnos28]

All this discution begin to look like some sort of christian lore...where is God and the angels? I can't see them ...well...they live in the clouds, that is why you can't see them ...ahem, ok ...after two thousands years...great, now we are flying in the clouds, where is God and the angels? still can't see them ...ahh, it was more like a philosophical thing, they don't actually live in the clouds, lol

The same with pilots skills....the player: hey, my pilots are doing dumb shit...well, they are not skilled, you need 5 stars pilots with 5 stars morale...aham...ok, here...5 star 5 morale pilots, they still do dumb shit...well, it was a philosophical thing, the AI is actually bad, we can't make good AI, you would need quantum supercomputers to use the good AI we would make (even tho some ppl give examples of games from 1995 with better implemented AI).

Just say the AI is not optimal, keep an eye for it, be prepared for 5 stars pilots to do stupid shit and plan accordingly. Like in the case of station busting, know for a fact that 5 star destroyers pilots, will take that turett fire in the face and be ready to snipe the turetts or not use destroyers at all for station busting, when there are live turetts on.

[jlehtone]

The best part of this is that while we somewhat agree that AI is not nice, we strongly disagree on the details.
Therefore, Egosoft can conclude that current implementation is an "acceptable" compromise.

[builder680]

Yeah. The "best" part. sigh...

[Ragnos28]

The best part of this is that while we somewhat agree that AI is not nice, we strongly disagree on the details.
Therefore, Egosoft can conclude that current implementation is an "acceptable" compromise.

The thing is...I get it, is a real complex simulation, there are moments when I look at the hundreds of ships in the sector, each one doing their thing, especially when AI vs AI is duking it out, ARG fighter vs HOP fighter, for example and I indeed go wow

But don't hide bad AI behind the "skill system". Freking own it like the message "the autopilot epically failed" have an "the AI epically failed" message, add some humor to curb the player frustration with ships behavior

And I still don't undestand how, for example, in X3TC, the fighters will line up behind the Odin and Valhala carriers to land and in the more advanced X4, the fighters bundle up in top of the landing pad Not to mention that, when you ordered ships to atack a moving target, in X3TC, they would adjust to the actual realtime position of the target, while in X4, they go to the position where the target was at the moment in which the order was given and after move to the position the target is.

It seem to be a tendency in games, like TotalWar series for example, where ppl swear that the AI was better in Medieval I that in the latest games in the series.

[Pares]

. As a rl example,the idea that anyone would hand over the keys to something like an F-35 to some random schmuck on the street just doesn't sit right with me. But maybe it makes sense to others, I dunno. Maybe the space future is different.

When that happens isn't it the player deciding to employ a cheap idiot who has only done some online course?
The 3+ star pilots hiring fee is in the millions, cheap "I spent an hour in MS Flight simulator though crashed the landing" pilot literally standing unemployed in the street is 2k. 5k-10k for the random hire employment agency dealer delivery pilot guaranteed not to blow the ship up leaving port but that's about it.

The player has the option of only employing properly trained pilots, but since most are doing nothing more than being space pizza delivery boys players are happy employing the lowest priced pilot for most jobs.

I have multiple problems with this too. First of all the way you hire people by walking up to them on the street and basically asking them "Hey, do you want to be my expendable slave forever if I pay you X amount of credits now?", it's so ridiculous. Where is Space LinkedIn? Secondly when you buy a ship, you don't have the option to choose the captain. You are automatically and mandatorily given an incompetent captain, even if you just bought a capital ship. Which means that the building faction happily gives the controls of their multimillion credit warship in the hands of a completely incompetent, untrained person? Who you then have to personally train with seminars. You also cannot hire a competent crew. So you are forced to start with a complete noob crew even if you just bought the most powerful warship in the galaxy.

I love the idea of having crew. But the current implementation doesn't make any sense to me, it's immersion breaking, it feels half-finished, and even the direction it went with this 0-5 star "completely clueless to barely competent" skill system is a total dead end IMHO.

[SirConnery]

I have multiple problems with this too. First of all the way you hire people by walking up to them on the street and basically asking them "Hey, do you want to be my expendable slave forever if I pay you X amount of credits now?", it's so ridiculous. Where is Space LinkedIn?

Yeah I always saw this as a great example of gameified (is that a word) abstraction. Hiring people through a Space Linkedin would be much less fun that what we have now. But I never thought we were hiring a store clerk to work as a captain on our ship. I thought this was a great example of a abstracting real life mechanics to a game world.

Secondly when you buy a ship, you don't have the option to choose the captain. You are automatically and mandatorily given an incompetent captain, even if you just bought a capital ship. Which means that the building faction happily gives the controls of their multimillion credit warship in the hands of a completely incompetent, untrained person? Who you then have to personally train with seminars. You also cannot hire a competent crew. So you are forced to start with a complete noob crew even if you just bought the most powerful warship in the galaxy.

Yeah this to me blows the whole "you're just hiring random bums off the street theory" to rest. You have giant shipyards building warships, you expect us to believe they also just hire their unemployed friends to captain the ship? Of course not.

The 0-1 star captains are supposed to be professionals working in aviation.

[jlehtone]

Which means that the building faction happily gives the controls of their multimillion credit warship in the hands of a completely incompetent, untrained person?

Have we not heard tales of Shipyards that not only do that, but build and launch those ships right in the middle of the worst enemies of the customer?
Why? Because the sooner the customer wrecks their new ship, the sooner they are back to buy an another. Profitsss.

I would assume that the launch procedure is so automated that even the auto-pillock could not turn it into epic fireworks. Three steps out of the porch and you are "free".


There are skills for service crews, marines, station managers, and pilots. Are the skills as whole bad, or do you focus on piloting?

If pilots had no skill system, let say they would all have the properties of current "3 star pilot", then what should be changed/tuned in the functionality of "pilot AI"?