Problem with Xenons.

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Szynszyl
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Problem with Xenons.

Post by Szynszyl » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 22:33

Hello,

I have big problem with Xenons, they spread like covid. Other racec cant defent their sectors. If i dont destroy Xenon invasion forces, no one do this. I try Faction enchancer war module mod, but it doesn't help. What is wrong? What i can do to increase other race defence?

xant
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by xant » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 23:00

Oh, you lucky son of a toast.

My Xenon lose sectors left and right, they can't even deal with a single defense station in close proximity to their wharf/shipyard. Everyone just walks over them, it's actually a bit sad to observe.

But it also shows that it's hit or miss with them, they either grow out of control or fail at everything. I imagine it is nearly impossible to get the balancing right in such a case.

Bastelfred
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Bastelfred » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 23:02

Szynszyl wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 22:33
Hello,

I have big problem with Xenons, they spread like covid. Other racec cant defent their sectors. If i dont destroy Xenon invasion forces, no one do this. I try Faction enchancer war module mod, but it doesn't help. What is wrong? What i can do to increase other race defence?
Do you use mods? There are some mods that additionally strengthen the Xenon.

Szynszyl
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Szynszyl » Sat, 27. Nov 21, 23:14

I have mods but i think that none of them icrease xenon power. Below i put screenshot with my mods settings (faction enchanter war module i tur on couple minutes ago)

https://i.imgur.com/H1qPBve.png
https://i.imgur.com/tfhtKgU.png

GCU Grey Area
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by GCU Grey Area » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 00:05

Szynszyl wrote:
Sat, 27. Nov 21, 22:33
What i can do to increase other race defence?
Sell their shipyards & wharves resources with which to build ships. Build appropriate stations in/near their territory to make those resources if they don't have sufficient production capacity of their own (Split ships in particular often have very high resource requirements). Take missions to construct defence stations for them & don't skimp on the design - give them more turrets than the bare minimum asked for in the mission briefing. Make sure that NPC stations which are in the process of being built are well supplied with construction materials, in particular ensure that defence stations have sufficient turret components.

builder680
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by builder680 » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 00:08

Xenon are stronger now with 4.0 (.1?), (.2?). They are essentially a time limit from the start. Expand FAST from the very beginning... or lose.

Szynszyl
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Szynszyl » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 00:48

Ok, one more thing, defence platforms are worth time and resources?

Imperial Good
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Imperial Good » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 01:54

4.10 the Xenon were not really an issue. Their attacks would eventually die out when they hit a major station. Most of their damage to stations was due to stations being completely defenceless due to the shortage of defence building components such as Advanced Electronics for turrets. Any sizeable station with constructed turrets usually had no problems fending off the typical Destroyer I + 2x K attack fleets with minimal damage.

4.20 B3 the Xenon stand a good chance of bulldozing a lot of the universe. Even fully constructed defence stations stand a very high chance of being destroyed by a single Destroyer I. A single Destroyer I stands a good chance of completely killing 9 Syns in low attention. AI still can fend them off to some extent with their core defence fleets, but at high costs that need to be replaced timely before the next one shows up an hour or so later.

Manawydn
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Manawydn » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 03:44

The FE's could be part of the issue, but more than likely it has to do with 2 things primarily, since FE's buff all factions and not just the Xenon.

1- no economy support for the ai. You may not have been able to get enough core-infrastructure up in time. This directly relates to, and is usually caused by thing number 2.

2- you got a map-seed when you started the game that gave Xenon the slight advantage. And/or upon spinning up the galaxy for the first time - same thing - within the first few hours. I'm guessing your savegame isn't all that old, and that you are newer. Welcome. Purge the Xenos, Brother.

Manawydn
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Manawydn » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 03:46

Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 01:54
4.10 the Xenon were not really an issue. Their attacks would eventually die out when they hit a major station. Most of their damage to stations was due to stations being completely defenceless due to the shortage of defence building components such as Advanced Electronics for turrets. Any sizeable station with constructed turrets usually had no problems fending off the typical Destroyer I + 2x K attack fleets with minimal damage.

4.20 B3 the Xenon stand a good chance of bulldozing a lot of the universe. Even fully constructed defence stations stand a very high chance of being destroyed by a single Destroyer I. A single Destroyer I stands a good chance of completely killing 9 Syns in low attention. AI still can fend them off to some extent with their core defence fleets, but at high costs that need to be replaced timely before the next one shows up an hour or so later.
Oh they are an issue in my modded 4.1 XD The Xenon vs Me+TER vs literally all of the Commonwealth, including TRI+CUB (and all the "normal" factions)

Me and the Terrans are the other problem. For both CW and Xenon.
I regret nothing.
Purge the Xenos Brother. For The Emperor!

Diroc
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Diroc » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 06:55

Xenon are a resource sink for other races to dump production into. I don't understand why someone would want to wipe them out.
They keep the universe from becoming old and stale.
:gruebel:

Ragnos28
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Ragnos28 » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 10:46

Diroc wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 06:55
Xenon are a resource sink for other races to dump production into. I don't understand why someone would want to wipe them out.
They keep the universe from becoming old and stale.
:gruebel:
I'm getting desperate to keep xenons alive in my game...I must have kill about 20 intervention Asgards that refuse to let Sector Matrix #451 alone :twisted:
I'm waiting for 4.2 to drop so I can stop the "watch" :mrgreen:

Szynszyl
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Szynszyl » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 11:34

Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 01:54
4.20 B3 the Xenon stand a good chance of bulldozing a lot of the universe. Even fully constructed defence stations stand a very high chance of being destroyed by a single Destroyer I. A single Destroyer I stands a good chance of completely killing 9 Syns in low attention. AI still can fend them off to some extent with their core defence fleets, but at high costs that need to be replaced timely before the next one shows up an hour or so later.
Hmm so one of reason is new beta? Yes i play on beta.
Manawydn wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 03:44
The FE's could be part of the issue, but more than likely it has to do with 2 things primarily, since FE's buff all factions and not just the Xenon.

1- no economy support for the ai. You may not have been able to get enough core-infrastructure up in time. This directly relates to, and is usually caused by thing number 2.

2- you got a map-seed when you started the game that gave Xenon the slight advantage. And/or upon spinning up the galaxy for the first time - same thing - within the first few hours. I'm guessing your savegame isn't all that old, and that you are newer. Welcome. Purge the Xenos, Brother.
Yes my save if more or less fresh, i play couple hrs and i have my problem. So how i can earn money to build core stations?


Finall question is what to do now? I have only 2 strong xl ships and before i destroy one defence platform 2 more are start to build.

xant
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by xant » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 11:48

Szynszyl wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 11:34
Finall question is what to do now? I have only 2 strong xl ships and before i destroy one defence platform 2 more are start to build.
The key to drain the Xenon swamp is to remove the roots of their cluster first. The ideal scenario is a Raptor + Asgard combo, the former full of M Flak to deal with the huge swarm of drones and fighters, the latter to remove stations at a fast pace. Take a few corvettes with you to send after unprotected S.

Then your first stop is the Shipyard and Wharf. Without them the Xenon can only get reinforcements from other clusters, which means flying long distances through many other sectors. As you can guess, this isn't feasible. So, destroy those two stations and you have enough time to go from station to station until the whole cluster is empty. It will still take a bit of time, but without a way to build ships there isn't much they can do about it. Each ship they lose won't be replaced.

You can also do it with a couple of normal destroyers, but it will take a bit longer to deal with those stations. And there's always the risk of getting ambushed by a couple of K's, so you have to be careful if you use weaker ships.

Szynszyl
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Szynszyl » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 12:47

Ok ill try that, last question, what ship type build xenon stations? I'm asking cuz somtimes i think that they just spawn.

jlehtone
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by jlehtone » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 13:21

Szynszyl wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 12:47
Ok ill try that, last question, what ship type build xenon stations?
None. S. Xenon do not have nor use Builders. Their S haul ECells, Ore, and Silicon to build storage and the station assembles itself.
xant wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 11:48
Then your first stop is the Shipyard and Wharf. ... So, destroy those two stations and you have enough time to go from station to station until the whole cluster is empty. It will still take a bit of time, but without a way to build ships there isn't much they can do about it.
This. Definitely. (Although, I do apply it to TER rather than XEN.)
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Szynszyl
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Szynszyl » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 17:45

jlehtone wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 13:21
xant wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 11:48
Then your first stop is the Shipyard and Wharf. ... So, destroy those two stations and you have enough time to go from station to station until the whole cluster is empty. It will still take a bit of time, but without a way to build ships there isn't much they can do about it.
This. Definitely. (Although, I do apply it to TER rather than XEN.)
Ok and factions (include xenons) will rebuild shipyards and wharf?

jlehtone
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by jlehtone » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 19:18

Szynszyl wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 17:45
Ok and factions (include xenons) will rebuild shipyards and wharf?
At least they do try. I did pop Shipyard from #598. Build site of a one did appear in Rhy. After popping that too, one appeared in Turqoise Sea.

Early on PAR did wipe HOP Wharf and ED (from Holy and Pontifex) and HOP did build new ones into LV and Cardinal's.

TER had Wharf in Mars. They did rebuild in Mercury. Now it is in ... haven't explored. With TER Shipyard I did shoot it down to one module, a connection module. That way I know where it is, but it took several hours to get back into business.

TEL have Trading Station in Family Valka (TEL did take that sector from Xenon pre-4.0.). The Trading Station replaces the one that Xenon did demolish in Hewa's Twin (or the one from Open Market).
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Szynszyl
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Szynszyl » Sun, 28. Nov 21, 20:44

Ok thx. That all i want to know i think, big thanks everyone for help :)

Imperial Good
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Re: Problem with Xenons.

Post by Imperial Good » Mon, 29. Nov 21, 07:04

Xenon might rebuild their warfs and shipyards in other clusters. As such for the very last cluster it might not be viable to destroy the shipyards and warfs like that as they might replace them faster than a small fleet can destroy them. For example in Scale Plate Green in my current playthrough there are 2 shipyards and 2 wharfs.
xant wrote:
Sun, 28. Nov 21, 11:48
The key to drain the Xenon swamp is to remove the roots of their cluster first. The ideal scenario is a Raptor + Asgard combo, the former full of M Flak to deal with the huge swarm of drones and fighters, the latter to remove stations at a fast pace. Take a few corvettes with you to send after unprotected S.
This is excessive. A single Asgard is all you need to clear clusters. Even in 4.20 you can still one shot the I and S/M xenon pose no threat to the Asgard. Assuming you use decent L turrets like TER L Bolt/Pulse and not Beam or Plasma. Only the last cluster might need more fire power due to the Xenon concentrating their stations to some extent.

In 4.10 using TER L Pulse was recommended because L Bolt had issues hitting S sized ships efficiently. This issue appears fixed in the 4.20 beta with both TER L Bolt and TER L Pulse being more than sufficient to fend off huge swarms of Xenon S and M ships trivially. TER L Pulse are now so efficient most defence drones are destroyed before they even start attacking the Asgard.

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