X-22 Egosoft next big project

[Raevyan]

My biggest beefs with current state of X4 are:
- many copy/paste stats across ships and equipment (like medium turrets)
- bare bone station interiors (only one sculpture of Teladi Falcon, one hologram of Argon Nova, everyone use the same single Argon office, while elevator corridor has racial wallpaper)
- no easy way to mass switch captain/pilots (I can mass train them at HQ, but then have to move them one by one?).
- missile logistic (and Auxilary ships logistic) is very tedious and kept me away from using missiles.
- placeholder factions of ALI and SCA - they really look unfinished.
- both Xenon and Khaak could use more ships types.
- NPC faction fleet composition is really crappy, like no one other than Terrans know how to use carriers, all other are just destroyer spam that gets really boring.
- for empire building, to avoid having 1000+ module behemoth stations, I'd like to have XL modules for many things, like habitats, storage, smartchips etc.
- for sake of completion, Borons is a must.
- proper NPC pirate economy (like stealing ships and cargo increase pirate budget and they buy ships frm that budget).
- more deployales, like more drone types (X-Rebirth had many drone types) and lasertower.
- working minefields (like working both IS and OOS).


If it require a new game to solve these, then be it.

In all honesty a new game isn’t the best solution. That would basically mean played another full priced beta game that was released way to early and have to pay for the fixes.

[Rei Ayanami]

Obviously it's for a flight simulator for the X-22 aircraft

But to be serious :
Well, If I rememberr correctly they said at one point that there won't be any sequel to X4 for quite a while (if any) but instead they'd focus on improving and expanding X4.
To be perfectly honest, i'm not that keen on a standalone expansion, as it splits the game and focus in two, most likely resulting in one or the other being abandoned by the community (and the devs).
I'd much rather have constant additions and improvements for X4. That's why I hope its for a big X4 expansion, perhaps Borons.

[Imperial Good]

Could also be the DLC for X4 in 2022 as it seems they are aiming for 1 year cycles atm (based on the last 2 DLCs). It is also a commercial project that full edition owners will not automatically get which might be why it obtained funding. It could also be another round of funding for the next speculated pirate DLC, just under another name due to changes in direction after the first round of funding. It could even be a port of X4 to other systems like MacOS, PS5 or Xbox Series as all those are more than capable of running X4 from a hardware perspective. It may even just be a X4 3D, similar to how there was an XR 3D.

Hopefully it allows Egosoft to expand their team and create more or better content than previously possible. It might also never materialise into a full product with elements being recycled, as it often the case with games (project Titan at Blizzard ending up with pieces put into Overwatch). We will have to wait and see.

[Panos]

Could also be the DLC for X4 in 2022 as it seems they are aiming for 1 year cycles atm (based on the last 2 DLCs). It is also a commercial project that full edition owners will not automatically get which might be why it obtained funding. It could also be another round of funding for the next speculated pirate DLC, just under another name due to changes in direction after the first round of funding. It could even be a port of X4 to other systems like MacOS, PS5 or Xbox Series as all those are more than capable of running X4 from a hardware perspective. It may even just be a X4 3D, similar to how there was an XR 3D.

Hopefully it allows Egosoft to expand their team and create more or better content than previously possible. It might also never materialise into a full product with elements being recycled, as it often the case with games (project Titan at Blizzard ending up with pieces put into Overwatch). We will have to wait and see.

If there is a Xbox X series port, means API change to DX12. Which also means optimised code for Zen2/3 and AMD GPU.
Shall this happens, I believe PC users need the option to switch to that version, because current engine is really bad on AMD GPUs. Comparable AMD-NV GPUs and the latter is 40% faster or more. Something that shouldn't be happening and affects RDNA1/2 and Vega.

And is not Windows drivers issue only because I am using Linux too having 3 drivers (MESA, AMDVLK, AMDPro) showing similar perf levels with Windows 10 with SAM/BAR activated too.

[Imperial Good]

Which also means optimised code for Zen2/3 and AMD GPU.
Shall this happens, I believe PC users need the option to switch to that version, because current engine is really bad on AMD GPUs. Comparable AMD-NV GPUs and the latter is 40% faster or more. Something that shouldn't be happening and affects RDNA1/2 and Vega.

The code runs pretty well on Zen2/3 CPUs already if benchmarks are to go by. AMD GPUs have other issues, not related to Vulkan being used (AMD optimises for both Vulkan and D3D12).

[Raevyan]

Could also be the DLC for X4 in 2022 as it seems they are aiming for 1 year cycles atm (based on the last 2 DLCs). It is also a commercial project that full edition owners will not automatically get which might be why it obtained funding. It could also be another round of funding for the next speculated pirate DLC, just under another name due to changes in direction after the first round of funding. It could even be a port of X4 to other systems like MacOS, PS5 or Xbox Series as all those are more than capable of running X4 from a hardware perspective. It may even just be a X4 3D, similar to how there was an XR 3D.

Hopefully it allows Egosoft to expand their team and create more or better content than previously possible. It might also never materialise into a full product with elements being recycled, as it often the case with games (project Titan at Blizzard ending up with pieces put into Overwatch). We will have to wait and see.

The official documents state that X-22 is a standalone new game for pc and linux. It’s also almost triple the amount of funding that dlc 3 received, which also specifically states that it’s a dlc for X4.

„X-22“ (Arbeitstitel) ist ein eigenständiges, neues Spiel basierend auf der erfolgreichen Weltraumsimulations- / Sandbox-Spielereihe „X“ der EGOSOFT GmbH. Zielplattformen sind Windows PC und Linux.

https://www.bmvi.de/SharedDocs/DE/Artik ... /x-22.html

[Roeleveld]

Could also be the DLC for X4 in 2022 as it seems they are aiming for 1 year cycles atm (based on the last 2 DLCs). It is also a commercial project that full edition owners will not automatically get which might be why it obtained funding. It could also be another round of funding for the next speculated pirate DLC, just under another name due to changes in direction after the first round of funding. It could even be a port of X4 to other systems like MacOS, PS5 or Xbox Series as all those are more than capable of running X4 from a hardware perspective. It may even just be a X4 3D, similar to how there was an XR 3D.

Hopefully it allows Egosoft to expand their team and create more or better content than previously possible. It might also never materialise into a full product with elements being recycled, as it often the case with games (project Titan at Blizzard ending up with pieces put into Overwatch). We will have to wait and see.

If there is a Xbox X series port, means API change to DX12. Which also means optimised code for Zen2/3 and AMD GPU.

I use an AMD5950X CPU and have no issues with performance.
Getting 100FPS (VSync enabled, so topped there) in most situations.

Shall this happens, I believe PC users need the option to switch to that version, because current engine is really bad on AMD GPUs. Comparable AMD-NV GPUs and the latter is 40% faster or more. Something that shouldn't be happening and affects RDNA1/2 and Vega.

And is not Windows drivers issue only because I am using Linux too having 3 drivers (MESA, AMDVLK, AMDPro) showing similar perf levels with Windows 10 with SAM/BAR activated too.

Resizable BAR needs the games to actually support this and the performance increase is minimal even for officually supported games.

[Roeleveld]

Obviously it's for a flight simulator for the X-22 aircraft

But to be serious :
Well, If I rememberr correctly they said at one point that there won't be any sequel to X4 for quite a while (if any) but instead they'd focus on improving and expanding X4.
To be perfectly honest, i'm not that keen on a standalone expansion, as it splits the game and focus in two, most likely resulting in one or the other being abandoned by the community (and the devs).
I'd much rather have constant additions and improvements for X4. That's why I hope its for a big X4 expansion, perhaps Borons.

I agree with this.
But, the reluctance of Egosoft to actually change the universe design of the existing systems to make use of the new mechanic of different solar-levels and other changes makes the game feel weird and, I think, causes several of the issues we are seeing now.

Personally, I would have no issues with changes that can affect long-running saves, those empires should have no issues dealing with these changes and adding a new faction to a universe where the player already wiped out the economies of all the other races will never lead to the same gameplay as you'd have when you started from scratch anyway.

And with the new custom gamestart, you can set yourself up with a mini-empire already and conquer the universe from that.

[Panos]

I use an AMD5950X CPU and have no issues with performance.
Getting 100FPS (VSync enabled, so topped there) in most situations.

Resizable BAR needs the games to actually support this and the performance increase is minimal even for officually supported games.

Have a look here.

viewtopic.php?f=146&t=441417

Is AMD GPU issue with this game.

SAM is working with 5700XT and X4 Foundations. Since it's activation last month the lows are similar to the 6700XT as you will see on the discussion.

The problem is a comparable, if not slower, GTX1080Ti is 40% faster than the 5700XT, to the point the 6900XT is just 20% faster than 1080Ti. Which is ridiculous. 3080Ti 50% faster than the 6900XT? Shouldn't be happening.

X4 is the only game having such perf issues wih AMD GPUs. Is not 5-10 fps is not 5-10% but 40%+. Roughly the AMD cards run 2/3 what they should.
That is on both Windows and Linux (tested with all 3 drivers there) and only with this game happening.

Yet none has responded 2 months now what is going on, if we can help and if we can assist by running the AMD Vulkan profiler and provide data to Egosoft.

The code runs pretty well on Zen2/3 CPUs already if benchmarks are to go by. AMD GPUs have other issues, not related to Vulkan being used (AMD optimises for both Vulkan and D3D12).

Vulkan is not an issue we all know that. Every other game runs fine.

I am running the AMD GPU profiler with the game last few days trying to capture as much data as possible and study them.
If Egosoft needs the .rgp files or wants some specific tests to run I am here at least with my humble 5700XT and plenty of free time to help

[Falcrack]

My question is, if they are making a new X game, what do they plan to do differently compared to X4? What do they plan to improve upon?

[Zloth2]

Why? They've got plans, I'm sure, but some of those plans won't work out and there's likely to be other ideas thought up along the way that will work great.

[Imperial Good]

Resizable BAR needs the games to actually support this and the performance increase is minimal even for officually supported games.

As far as I am aware it does not need games to support it. Just games only benefit from it if they regularly transfer a lot of data to the GPU over a large address range. It saves on the performance penalty every time the locked-in address range changes. Due to this penalty, many existing games before resizable bar might have optimised to avoid it, as such they will see little gains from the feature being used. Similar to how moving to D3D12 or Vulkan might not provide any gains over older APIs unless the engine was designed around it as the features it improves performance for were actively avoided due to being slow in older titles.

[Panos]

Resizable BAR needs the games to actually support this and the performance increase is minimal even for officually supported games.

As far as I am aware it does not need games to support it. Just games only benefit from it if they regularly transfer a lot of data to the GPU over a large address range. It saves on the performance penalty every time the locked-in address range changes. Due to his penalty, many existing games before resizable bar might have optimised to avoid it, as such they will see little gains from the feature being used. Similar to how moving to D3D12 or Vulkan might not provide any gains over older APIs unless the engine was designed around it as the features it improves performance for were actively avoided due to being slow in older titles.

I have to agree. Since AMD activated SAM on the 5700XT in September, the low end of the perf of the GPU has been improved to the point is similar to a 6700XT (the minimum FPS on same scene). However there is still the discrepancy with the overall performance.

Really wish was able to help by running the AMD Vulkan best practices profiler, but idk where to put the environmental variable required in the game to be able to work.
Only can run the AMD GPU/VRAM profiler and studying the results.

[Cyron43]

I was just taking another look at the BMDV site and it says X22 is a new standalone game which is based on the X series (but no dependencies).
So this could mean it's the end for X4. No Borons, no other upcoming DLC.
Here is the google translated page: https://www-bmvi-de.translate.goog/Shar ... r_pto=wapp

[mr.WHO]

So this could mean it's the end for X4. No Borons, no other upcoming DLC.

What makes you think it's the case?

X3 was discontinued, but X3TC added Terran, then we had X3AP and X3FL.


If anything, X-22 might be the only opportunity to add Borons, plus deal with a lot of issues that are blocked by need to keep X4 save-game compactibility.


I'd love to buy X4 analog to X3TC, with Borons, more stuff and getting rid copy/paste stats.
If, it would also got rid of damn ventures and ****** online features, then it would be absolute perfection.

[vadiolive]

I feel its time to move for X5 or X-Whatever

Fews cores issues plague X4.... like any game feel things you cant just build over... you need tear down and rebuild eventual

[Duncaroos]

If it wasn't for save compatibility, it could be possible in X4's life. If there were critical items like AI improvements, better fleet control, more/better turret control....it would be worth starting a game over for (for me anyways).

What features though are not save compatible? Is that just meaning the update will just have your save file continue as normal and no actions are needed by the player? Or if you need to do some reconfiguring on fleets/stations/etc, then that's still considered save compatible? Guess what I'm asking is where the line is drawn for a save to be "compatible"? Only thing I know would not be save compatible is galaxy resource property balances (e.g all base game systems for sunlight are all stuck @ 100%). Or perhaps even adjusting production module / workforce consumption rates would not be save compatible? Very cloudy...

[TheDeliveryMan]

I was just taking another look at the BMDV site and it says X22 is a new standalone game which is based on the X series (but no dependencies).
So this could mean it's the end for X4. No Borons, no other upcoming DLC.
Here is the google translated page: https://www-bmvi-de.translate.goog/Shar ... r_pto=wapp

Have a closer look, the working title is X4-22!

My guess is that it will be an improved X4 engine. The map will likely include all sectors from X4:F + SV + CoH + ToA with some balancing changes.

I hope it will be called X4: Boron Conflict

[jlehtone]

I hope it will be called X4: Boron Conflict

Borons do not approve conflicts. Entanglement, perhaps?

[Alan Phipps]

The main plot will probably be centred around how the Boron planets cope with severe global warming (from all that natural gas emitted) leading to water evaporation and algae scum problems in their population centre planets. Maybe a key role for protectyon somewhere in that?