Dead faction...still building stations.

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ttheobald
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Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by ttheobald » Tue, 5. Oct 21, 22:30

So I wiped out the HOP. And I took all their sectors. Nothing of them remains. No stations, no ships, not even a satellite.

And the $#@%ers are still pumping out stations, which I have to task a force to go kill before the damned Teladi or Segaris start selling them build mats to get it finished.

They're F'ing dead. This is not a zombie game. And I'm rather pissed off that all this work just turns into a slog. What the hell, guys? :evil:

T

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Old Drullo321
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by Old Drullo321 » Tue, 5. Oct 21, 23:03

Maybe the better idea would provide screenshots and a savegame (not modified) and ask if that is intendend or maybe a bug.

GCU Grey Area
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by GCU Grey Area » Tue, 5. Oct 21, 23:13

They're not a dead faction, you've only defeated the assets they had in space. They still have a government & their planetary populations (over 5 billion of them in Holy Vision alone). Consequently, they still have money to pay for resources (from the few factions that are willing to trade with them) & attempt to rebuild their stations etc. Extremely unlikely they'll ever be able to do much though, they still have their enemies too...

ttheobald
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by ttheobald » Tue, 5. Oct 21, 23:43

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Tue, 5. Oct 21, 23:13
They're not a dead faction, you've only defeated the assets they had in space. They still have a government & their planetary populations (over 5 billion of them in Holy Vision alone). Consequently, they still have money to pay for resources (from the few factions that are willing to trade with them) & attempt to rebuild their stations etc. Extremely unlikely they'll ever be able to do much though, they still have their enemies too...
I appreciate what you've said, but in all honesty not with me interdicting their territory and eliminating every last asset. At the very least I can shower their world with detritus to make it impossible for them to lift anything out of low orbit without being annihilated. I don't mind them living out their lives on their planet, but if they're going to try to keep clawing back like this and not accept subject status, I'm going to have to go in with the mass drivers and then terraform their surface to suit my needs.

Which might be a worthy "terraforming" mission. How much ore do I have to mine to reduce their civilization to blotto, @Egosoft? I'm sick of finding these stations cropping up like shits on my lawn from the neighbor's dog. They don't belong in my garden, and it's high time they offered me an unconditional surrender. Speaking of which, wouldn't it be appropriate for the faction that has decided it lost the war to surrender and accept subject status? In which case they would be welcome to rebuild, so long as they remained allied and behaved according to player rules. Which probably their former enemies would either (a) take a dim view of the player allowing them to survive and offering them protection, or (b) consider it as a worthy effort to have "reformed" a naughty/villainous civilization.

T

dtpsprt
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by dtpsprt » Wed, 6. Oct 21, 00:17

And therein lies the problem, a real one.

To "eradicate" one faction you need to do the same to their "allies", even the ones "tolerating" them. And the allies of the allies and so on.

This, inevitably, leads to wiping out all factions. Even TER would have to be eradicated for dealing with PIO, who deals with almost all factions!!!

Where does that leave the player? Conquest of the whole galaxy!!! And the, inevitable, GAME OVER because there is no economy left except the one of the player's but with no purpose whatsoever.

humility925
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by humility925 » Wed, 6. Oct 21, 04:31

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Tue, 5. Oct 21, 23:13
They're not a dead faction, you've only defeated the assets they had in space. They still have a government & their planetary populations (over 5 billion of them in Holy Vision alone). Consequently, they still have money to pay for resources (from the few factions that are willing to trade with them) & attempt to rebuild their stations etc. Extremely unlikely they'll ever be able to do much though, they still have their enemies too...
It's make sense, and also I don't think crew and worker willing to do that as well, especially you hired same species from faction and they would won't follow your order to attack station and ship if is still friendly, all that. even so, they don't like support their alien boss tell them attack their homeworld.

Yup, space is huge and it's ok own sector, but not core sector where homeworld is or planetary population, they would see you threat and never again trust you with all tech and ship, even other faction wary of person who think right to conquer whole sector. At least if that if true and real happen in real life. Goverment don't like company had that kind of power, same for other company don't like goverment and company in power, too, so go on.

That might make little more sense in x3 because every ship under your control is a.i under your command, but now we don't had that level of a.i like x3, now we had to hire pilot, crew who had motive love their home station who born in spacestation or ship even or homeworld and you would had your station and ship turn againt you if you ever do illegal order, even pirate might not want that since pirate should only seek profit without work, not fight to death, so go on.
Had a compassionate when you able... :)

Y-llian
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by Y-llian » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 01:39

dtpsprt wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 00:17
And therein lies the problem, a real one.

To "eradicate" one faction you need to do the same to their "allies", even the ones "tolerating" them. And the allies of the allies and so on.

This, inevitably, leads to wiping out all factions. Even TER would have to be eradicated for dealing with PIO, who deals with almost all factions!!!

Where does that leave the player? Conquest of the whole galaxy!!! And the, inevitable, GAME OVER because there is no economy left except the one of the player's but with no purpose whatsoever.
While I take note of GCU’s point regarding planetary populations and space assets. I do think Dtpsprt has a point in terms of the game mechanics. Players are given the option to start wars and in fact, the entire game economy cannot function without it. One might say, wars are encouraged.

In most games, with a strategic layer such as X4, a war will have a winner and loser. The loser either survives in some fashion e.g. subjugation or they are annihilated. The way X4’s “wars” are setup there is never any form of meaningful resolution, which in terms of gameplay, is somewhat unsatisfying.

Perhaps what we need is some trigger when a faction is down to their last station or maybe, no stations but just a handful of ships. Where the losing “leader” would contact the player offering some terms and dependent on what gets decided the build jobs for that faction either continue or they are stopped.

So, for example, the player might permit the faction to keep their remaining assets providing they don’t build more. Gameplay effect is that relations are set to neutral and the build jobs for the losing faction is stopped.The player is given a warning that this change is permanent. Anything destroyed from this point on will not be replaced, so think carefully.

Alternatively, another option could be that the player decides to end the war and will permit the faction to rebuild. In effect, what we have now. Relations are set to neutral but the faction build jobs are left in tact. In reality, once a faction has nothing it will take a very long time to rebuild.

One can of course make this “negotiation” stage quite complex, will the losing faction still have allies - are they permitted to claim territory etc. But even a simple mechanic where the player has the option for the build jobs to stop, I think, would be a welcome addition for players heavily into faction wars.

Eyeklops
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by Eyeklops » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 17:23

Y-llian wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 01:39
dtpsprt wrote:
Wed, 6. Oct 21, 00:17
And therein lies the problem, a real one.

To "eradicate" one faction you need to do the same to their "allies", even the ones "tolerating" them. And the allies of the allies and so on.

This, inevitably, leads to wiping out all factions. Even TER would have to be eradicated for dealing with PIO, who deals with almost all factions!!!

Where does that leave the player? Conquest of the whole galaxy!!! And the, inevitable, GAME OVER because there is no economy left except the one of the player's but with no purpose whatsoever.
While I take note of GCU’s point regarding planetary populations and space assets. I do think Dtpsprt has a point in terms of the game mechanics. Players are given the option to start wars and in fact, the entire game economy cannot function without it. One might say, wars are encouraged.

In most games, with a strategic layer such as X4, a war will have a winner and loser. The loser either survives in some fashion e.g. subjugation or they are annihilated. The way X4’s “wars” are setup there is never any form of meaningful resolution, which in terms of gameplay, is somewhat unsatisfying.

Perhaps what we need is some trigger when a faction is down to their last station or maybe, no stations but just a handful of ships. Where the losing “leader” would contact the player offering some terms and dependent on what gets decided the build jobs for that faction either continue or they are stopped.

So, for example, the player might permit the faction to keep their remaining assets providing they don’t build more. Gameplay effect is that relations are set to neutral and the build jobs for the losing faction is stopped.The player is given a warning that this change is permanent. Anything destroyed from this point on will not be replaced, so think carefully.

Alternatively, another option could be that the player decides to end the war and will permit the faction to rebuild. In effect, what we have now. Relations are set to neutral but the faction build jobs are left in tact. In reality, once a faction has nothing it will take a very long time to rebuild.

One can of course make this “negotiation” stage quite complex, will the losing faction still have allies - are they permitted to claim territory etc. But even a simple mechanic where the player has the option for the build jobs to stop, I think, would be a welcome addition for players heavily into faction wars.
Some good idea's here. Surrender mechanics would certainly add a new layer to the war dynamic.

BlackRain
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by BlackRain » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 17:48

I am under the impression that if you take over the sectors, they won't be able to build in those sectors anymore. I think a faction can only build in sectors which are either friendly or unowned. Take over the sectors and they will in fact die. Once there are no sectors they could possibly build in, they won't be able to build anymore. Of course, if other factions take over the sectors and aren't friendly to them, it should also work.

Panos
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by Panos » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 21:15

ttheobald wrote:
Tue, 5. Oct 21, 22:30
So I wiped out the HOP.
Boooo.... :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:

You took out the faction fighting for freedom and indepedence, the good guys in this game!!!! :rant: :rant: :rant:




:lol:

dtpsprt
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by dtpsprt » Thu, 7. Oct 21, 21:34

BlackRain wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 17:48
I am under the impression that if you take over the sectors, they won't be able to build in those sectors anymore. I think a faction can only build in sectors which are either friendly or unowned. Take over the sectors and they will in fact die. Once there are no sectors they could possibly build in, they won't be able to build anymore. Of course, if other factions take over the sectors and aren't friendly to them, it should also work.
Wrong impression. This happens in sectors that belong to hostile AI factions where they can not buy a license to build, unless they make a Defence Station trying to claim the sector. In the player's sectors no license is needed, so they try to build!!!

BlackRain
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by BlackRain » Mon, 11. Oct 21, 16:05

dtpsprt wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 21:34
BlackRain wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 17:48
I am under the impression that if you take over the sectors, they won't be able to build in those sectors anymore. I think a faction can only build in sectors which are either friendly or unowned. Take over the sectors and they will in fact die. Once there are no sectors they could possibly build in, they won't be able to build anymore. Of course, if other factions take over the sectors and aren't friendly to them, it should also work.
Wrong impression. This happens in sectors that belong to hostile AI factions where they can not buy a license to build, unless they make a Defence Station trying to claim the sector. In the player's sectors no license is needed, so they try to build!!!
I am not sure what you are talking about. If you are an enemy of that faction, they won't try to build stations in a sector you own. Unless the sector is contested.

Are you talking about if you are friendly with them? Perhaps if you explained a little better people would understand the situation. Your information is barebones. I have never had an issue of another faction building in a sector I own unless I was friends with them.

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Vili
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by Vili » Thu, 14. Oct 21, 00:28

BlackRain wrote:
Mon, 11. Oct 21, 16:05
dtpsprt wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 21:34
BlackRain wrote:
Thu, 7. Oct 21, 17:48
I am under the impression that if you take over the sectors, they won't be able to build in those sectors anymore. I think a faction can only build in sectors which are either friendly or unowned. Take over the sectors and they will in fact die. Once there are no sectors they could possibly build in, they won't be able to build anymore. Of course, if other factions take over the sectors and aren't friendly to them, it should also work.
Wrong impression. This happens in sectors that belong to hostile AI factions where they can not buy a license to build, unless they make a Defence Station trying to claim the sector. In the player's sectors no license is needed, so they try to build!!!
I am not sure what you are talking about. If you are an enemy of that faction, they won't try to build stations in a sector you own. Unless the sector is contested.

Are you talking about if you are friendly with them? Perhaps if you explained a little better people would understand the situation. Your information is barebones. I have never had an issue of another faction building in a sector I own unless I was friends with them.
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... rbox=false

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... rbox=false

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ ... rbox=false

Oversize images replaced by links. Please review forum rules regarding maximum image sizes. Nanook

I have all the ANT sectors conquered, although without having any stationin Second Contact remains at ANT.

I conquered Hativak Choice from HAT because ANT was trying to build there.

And they keep building...in Hativak but not in Second Contact .... :o :o :? :gruebel:

Another bug is i can't use Group Training in Terraform.

My savegame : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V32lLs ... sp=sharing

If you destroy all satellites, magically appear again in a few minutes :gruebel: :gruebel:

Regards.

BlackRain
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by BlackRain » Thu, 14. Oct 21, 00:50

They will try to build for a while but eventually it should stop. I had this issue with the xenon (They would occasionally try to build new stations in a sector I had conquered). Eventually, took a while, but it eventually ended and they didn't try to build any more. I don't know the current situation in your game so it is difficult to tell what is going on. Are they building anything in the other sectors you conquered? Is it just Hatikvah? It could be an issue where the order to build many stations was already created and it may be a while until no more try to get built, etc. I haven't played the game in a while so I Can't really test and such to see for myself.

Malchar
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Re: Dead faction...still building stations.

Post by Malchar » Thu, 14. Oct 21, 02:17

My solution.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1918090683

illustration is a bit outdated, I admit, But like that nobody will be able to build something ... except may be Kha aak.

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