Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
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Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
The Torus wreck looks kinda smaller from the outside, but when we fly into it it seems much larger.
Is Torus interior actually inside Torus wreack model, or are we magically teleported to somewhere else where the interior is not up to the scale of Torus exterior?
Is Torus interior actually inside Torus wreack model, or are we magically teleported to somewhere else where the interior is not up to the scale of Torus exterior?
Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
While its probably an optical illusion. It is pretty big on the outside too.
Its hard to say for sure since we now have seamless loading.
In the absence of actual facts though I'll say its actually inside. Also might be actually bigger than the X3 Torus. Or fatter to be precise.
Its hard to say for sure since we now have seamless loading.
In the absence of actual facts though I'll say its actually inside. Also might be actually bigger than the X3 Torus. Or fatter to be precise.
Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
The Torus interior is really inside the Torus exterior, and in fact only takes up a small proportion of the available space.
Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
Nice! Usually developers take a shortcut and split exterior and interior to two separate instances, so when interior and exterior models actually align that is really impressive!
Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
yea it is definitely inside. because when i flew to it i could see the interior being rendered before the exterior.
Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
The much slower speed of movement is likely to be one thing that makes it feel bigger, indeed.
Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
The feel of scale is a real problem in space games.
Why?
Because our mind accepts scale using known references. For example when you see child, you know what size it should be, when you see tree near child you can understand size of the tree because you know size of the child and so on.
Another sample, when people do photos of some miniatures they put some known object near for reference, because when you see car you know what real size of it but when you see lets say razor blade near it which is twice bigger then you understand that the car is perfectly done miniature...
Let's get back to the space games: there are no known objects. Literally. We've never seen space stations, space ships and planets are just balls of different sizes which we cannot accept/understand.
That's for flat images.
Using two eyes (VR?) can help to solve the problem .
Why?
Because our mind accepts scale using known references. For example when you see child, you know what size it should be, when you see tree near child you can understand size of the tree because you know size of the child and so on.
Another sample, when people do photos of some miniatures they put some known object near for reference, because when you see car you know what real size of it but when you see lets say razor blade near it which is twice bigger then you understand that the car is perfectly done miniature...
Let's get back to the space games: there are no known objects. Literally. We've never seen space stations, space ships and planets are just balls of different sizes which we cannot accept/understand.
That's for flat images.
Using two eyes (VR?) can help to solve the problem .
X4 is not a destination. It's a journey. Unfortunately in a wrong direction.
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Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
Well, the Moon looks bigger when it's near the horizon for the same reason. When you see it at a high angle in the sky, it's just the size of the absolute amount of space it takes up in your vision, and looks small. When it's low to the sky, and you can see it near the horizon, your brain can do calculations on how much greater distance there is with that binocular vision, and determine that it's even more beyond the range of calculation than those mountains in the distance, so the Moon must be truly huge.af_2017 wrote: ↑Thu, 22. Apr 21, 15:19The feel of scale is a real problem in space games.
Why?
Because our mind accepts scale using known references. For example when you see child, you know what size it should be, when you see tree near child you can understand size of the tree because you know size of the child and so on.
Another sample, when people do photos of some miniatures they put some known object near for reference, because when you see car you know what real size of it but when you see lets say razor blade near it which is twice bigger then you understand that the car is perfectly done miniature...
Let's get back to the space games: there are no known objects. Literally. We've never seen space stations, space ships and planets are just balls of different sizes which we cannot accept/understand.
That's for flat images.
Using two eyes (VR?) can help to solve the problem .
Hence, I'm not sure VR would even help. The natural range-finding of human binocular vision works best at ranges of a couple hundred feet or less, and 1 km is "short range" in X4. (Early range-finders for naval ships in the late 19th and early 20th centuries were just like periscopes that went in two different directions for each eye to effectively set the eyes further apart and give better accuracy at long range.) EVERYTHING is outside the effective range of your ability to measure except the interiors of cockpits, because humans were never built to handle these kinds of ranges, as they were never built to handle many aspects of space.
Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
I thought that was some atmospheric lensing effect.Wraith_Magus wrote: ↑Thu, 22. Apr 21, 19:44...
Well, the Moon looks bigger when it's near the horizon for the same reason. When you see it at a high angle in the sky, it's just the size of the absolute amount of space it takes up in your vision, and looks small. When it's low to the sky, and you can see it near the horizon, your brain can do calculations on how much greater distance there is with that binocular vision, and determine that it's even more beyond the range of calculation than those mountains in the distance, so the Moon must be truly huge.
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Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
This could be the key to having the effect of great things...
X4 flaws a little on this, there is a visual difference between when I use the spacesuit and when I drive a ship, but my eyes are always the same.
On X Rebirth the "giant" effect was much more realistic and I think the problem with X4 is its "default speed".
Maybe it could get better with being able to slightly tweak the player's POV, but that wouldn't be fixed entirely...
Maybe take it as a suggestion
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CPU: Core i9 9900k @ 5.0Ghz - MOBO: MSI Z390-A PRO - RAM: 2x8GB Crucial Ballistix MAX DDR4 4400Mhz CL19 - GPU: nVidia RTX 3070 FE - M.2: Samsung 980 512GB - SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB - Samsung 850 EVO 250GB - Sandisk Plus 240GB – HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB – WD Caviar Blue 1TB – WD Caviar Black 2TB - PSU: Enermax Liberty 82+ PRO 620w - CASE: iTek Iron Soldier - MONITOR: 27” Acer ED270UP - Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit - KEYBOARD: Logitech G11 – MOUSE: Red Dragon Perdition
My X4 Steam screenshots.
CPU: Core i9 9900k @ 5.0Ghz - MOBO: MSI Z390-A PRO - RAM: 2x8GB Crucial Ballistix MAX DDR4 4400Mhz CL19 - GPU: nVidia RTX 3070 FE - M.2: Samsung 980 512GB - SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB - Samsung 850 EVO 250GB - Sandisk Plus 240GB – HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB – WD Caviar Blue 1TB – WD Caviar Black 2TB - PSU: Enermax Liberty 82+ PRO 620w - CASE: iTek Iron Soldier - MONITOR: 27” Acer ED270UP - Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit - KEYBOARD: Logitech G11 – MOUSE: Red Dragon Perdition
My X4 Steam screenshots.
Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
For me all the S class ships look positively tiny.Wraith_Magus wrote: ↑Thu, 22. Apr 21, 19:44Well, the Moon looks bigger when it's near the horizon for the same reason. When you see it at a high angle in the sky, it's just the size of the absolute amount of space it takes up in your vision, and looks small. When it's low to the sky, and you can see it near the horizon, your brain can do calculations on how much greater distance there is with that binocular vision, and determine that it's even more beyond the range of calculation than those mountains in the distance, so the Moon must be truly huge.af_2017 wrote: ↑Thu, 22. Apr 21, 15:19The feel of scale is a real problem in space games.
Why?
Because our mind accepts scale using known references. For example when you see child, you know what size it should be, when you see tree near child you can understand size of the tree because you know size of the child and so on.
Another sample, when people do photos of some miniatures they put some known object near for reference, because when you see car you know what real size of it but when you see lets say razor blade near it which is twice bigger then you understand that the car is perfectly done miniature...
Let's get back to the space games: there are no known objects. Literally. We've never seen space stations, space ships and planets are just balls of different sizes which we cannot accept/understand.
That's for flat images.
Using two eyes (VR?) can help to solve the problem .
Hence, I'm not sure VR would even help. The natural range-finding of human binocular vision works best at ranges of a couple hundred feet or less, and 1 km is "short range" in X4. (Early range-finders for naval ships in the late 19th and early 20th centuries were just like periscopes that went in two different directions for each eye to effectively set the eyes further apart and give better accuracy at long range.) EVERYTHING is outside the effective range of your ability to measure except the interiors of cockpits, because humans were never built to handle these kinds of ranges, as they were never built to handle many aspects of space.
And then you land and walk out.
Same for M class but worse.
Even an Asgard looks small sometimes.
Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
Unfortunately, as with other possible solutions such as changing the FoV, this has negative side-effects. I'm pretty sure the complaints would outweigh the positive feedback if we slowed all the ships down enough to make a noticeable difference, for example.-=SiR KiLLaLoT=- wrote: ↑Thu, 22. Apr 21, 20:00This could be the key to having the effect of great things...
X4 flaws a little on this, there is a visual difference between when I use the spacesuit and when I drive a ship, but my eyes are always the same.
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Re: Is Torus level actually inside Torus model?
I played a lot on XR and in that chapter there was something different that gave me a better reality effect.CBJ wrote: ↑Thu, 22. Apr 21, 21:48Unfortunately, as with other possible solutions such as changing the FoV, this has negative side-effects. I'm pretty sure the complaints would outweigh the positive feedback if we slowed all the ships down enough to make a noticeable difference, for example.-=SiR KiLLaLoT=- wrote: ↑Thu, 22. Apr 21, 20:00This could be the key to having the effect of great things...
X4 flaws a little on this, there is a visual difference between when I use the spacesuit and when I drive a ship, but my eyes are always the same.
I had always imagined that "the ideal" on a hypothetical X4, would have been to apply a travel mode (as it was done) with the speed of the yellow hyperways (as in the X Rebirth sector).
Wouldn't it have given a more real effect to "accelerate" the travel speed by a lot, but to keep the cruising speed "slower", increasing the average size of the sectors?
Anyway thanks for the clarification
HW Spec:
CPU: Core i9 9900k @ 5.0Ghz - MOBO: MSI Z390-A PRO - RAM: 2x8GB Crucial Ballistix MAX DDR4 4400Mhz CL19 - GPU: nVidia RTX 3070 FE - M.2: Samsung 980 512GB - SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB - Samsung 850 EVO 250GB - Sandisk Plus 240GB – HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB – WD Caviar Blue 1TB – WD Caviar Black 2TB - PSU: Enermax Liberty 82+ PRO 620w - CASE: iTek Iron Soldier - MONITOR: 27” Acer ED270UP - Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit - KEYBOARD: Logitech G11 – MOUSE: Red Dragon Perdition
My X4 Steam screenshots.
CPU: Core i9 9900k @ 5.0Ghz - MOBO: MSI Z390-A PRO - RAM: 2x8GB Crucial Ballistix MAX DDR4 4400Mhz CL19 - GPU: nVidia RTX 3070 FE - M.2: Samsung 980 512GB - SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB - Samsung 850 EVO 250GB - Sandisk Plus 240GB – HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB – WD Caviar Blue 1TB – WD Caviar Black 2TB - PSU: Enermax Liberty 82+ PRO 620w - CASE: iTek Iron Soldier - MONITOR: 27” Acer ED270UP - Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit - KEYBOARD: Logitech G11 – MOUSE: Red Dragon Perdition
My X4 Steam screenshots.