Transfer minerals to station.

[Ezarkal]

Be aware Silicon is very difficult to mine. It is as good as pointless even trying to mine it with ships below 2 stars of skill due to how inefficient it is (they will be at it for a very long time). Giving the miners shop brought seminars to raise them to between 2 and 3 stars of skill will vastly improve the rate at which they can mine Silicon. A single 5 star L miner mining Silicon may produce similar to over 100 M miners with 0 stars. If there is not a resource probe within 40 km of the mining site that is ~50% reduction to Silicon mining speed, even if very skilled.

This actually explains a LOT. Thanks for the tip.

[Halpog]

so on this way i can buy 3 miners and tell them seperatly to mine ore, silicone , ice whatever .....without ending up in a mess of 3 miners mining sillicone because i have 1000 ore and 900 silicon ...
there is no point of arguing for another solution , or anything, there is no better wqay to avoid the faulty logic x4 miners are using atm ...

Currently, if resource probes are setup correctly (possibly due to a bug), the 3 miners mining silicon due to 1000 ore and 900 silicon will return their silicon, fully unload it (due to being something like 900/50,000) and then move over to ore as it is now <1000 ore due to consumption and >>1000 Silicon. This will give a steady stream of all mineables and if there are enough miners the storage levels of everything will increase. The actual ratio of what miners mine at any given time will average out to exactly what the station needs, usually with most time being spent on Silicon (hard to mine) in the case of Computronic Substrate.

From an optimisation point of view being able to assign dedicated miners could end up less efficient. Say in your example you assign the miners evenly. The end result will likely be the station maxing out on Ice and Ore and being entirely empty of Silicon with the miners assigned to Ice and Ore sitting idle because you told them to do that rather than let them mine Silicon as needed which is bottlenecking station production. With the current logic, if it is working correctly (see what I wrote previously), this will not happen as if Silicon gets too low it will on average assign more miners to mining it.

I do agree that not having control over where miners operate is an annoyance at times. Would not mind seeing that functionality expanded, even if it is as simple as being able to give blacklists efficiently to groups of miners or only for all miners of a specific station.

i have a fiel with 1.7 silicone .... 1.4 ore ...2 miners at my station who needs ore and silicone ....guess what ..ore get mined .. and the minber for silicone is just sitting there and doing nothing, even with 10 ressource probs arround him
mostly i have at every sector with silicone and ore , methan helium more then just 4 probes
i even tryed it with 50 miners ... 100 miners .. there is the same result......

Be aware Silicon is very difficult to mine. It is as good as pointless even trying to mine it with ships below 2 stars of skill due to how inefficient it is (they will be at it for a very long time). Giving the miners shop brought seminars to raise them to between 2 and 3 stars of skill will vastly improve the rate at which they can mine Silicon. A single 5 star L miner mining Silicon may produce similar to over 100 M miners with 0 stars. If there is not a resource probe within 40 km of the mining site that is ~50% reduction to Silicon mining speed, even if very skilled.

it is NOT possible to tell a station trader to buy ressources for the station to keep the production running. they cannot buy ore, silicone

It is possible for trade subordinates to buy and sell mineables like ore and silicon. You can assign a miner as a trade subordinate and they will happily haul around Ore and Silicon from your own trade stations to the factory.

it is not possible to tell a ship to get stuff at point A and dropp it at point B

It is possible using repeat orders added in 4.00. Only requirement is that station A sells the stuff and station B buys the stuff. If you own both stations no money will change hands.

hmm for your first answer, abottleneck would not happen, since i can tell 1 miner to get ice, and 5 miners to get ore as example.but i get your point
the station trader i will try it with a miner and see what will happen, didnt know i can do that with a miner^^
the repeat order option iam using like this since 4.0 , but i feel its more like a workarround for the get and dropp command
as for the logic with the 5 star miner.i will try this and keep an eye on it.maybe the solution is this 5 star pilot at all^^
thnx for your patience and answers

[Pitagora]

One of the main issues in station behaviour is that they actually "buy" and "sell" from their miners, there is no "dump the cargo and keep mining" as one could expect from an employee.

This lead to a big problem. If you set raw materials maximum storage of 100, buy order up to 50 and free sell after 75 you'll never sell a gram of ore to anyone. Because even your miners will stop pouring ore in your station if you reached your max buy order (50), they keep all the stuff in their cargos until a "buy" window opens again even if the storage in the station is just 50% full.

This is the main issue imo. Even if my miners are dumb and the manager is dumber, having some raw materials to sell can balance things pretty well in getting what the station lack from 3rd parties... not optimal of course but it can be a very good workaround.

[aquatica]

Also I like to say it out again:

Probes don't work well or properly. If I *FILL* a sector with probes, all giving vast numbers of resources, miners *STILL* go to another resource, even if the same probes show lower amounts. I have noticed it to be mighty inefficient to spam probes, I'll just throw in maybe 4 or 8 a sector if not required.

Also my L-miner of below 3 stars mines Silicon just fine, although he is a sector autominer and not station miner. Almost as fast as my below 3 stars L gas miners (I'd say, 60% of the speed vs Gas miners?). This is ofcourse completely imperical and not really tested or measured, so take it with a grain or a ton of salt.

I've noticed that Chntonios work best regardless with Gas, but Magnetar isn't too bad with Ore's and so on. Seems that on mineral miners the most important thing is the amount of mining turrets and drones, so I tend to fill 'em up. Not a single death has been recorded in my nearly 4 days of gametime, even if several Kha'ak attacks have occurred.

[Jholern]

a propper fix would be
1: let us tell the miners WHAT to mine .....and not just let them automaticly mine 3 or 4 resources and than untill one is full ......
2:moving recourses to the universal container stuff ....so that even a transporter can transport ore ...or let transporters be able to transport resources too
3: put a basic command in for traders. to supply a station with get at A dropp it at B

Can do much of that already, without needing any mods. Recommend building something like these stations to help with mining logistics:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ajygdwg4fq0de ... 1.jpg?dl=0
Each of those stations in the foreground is configured to hold just 1 type of mineral & 1 type of gas, & has been assigned appropriate miners. Those resources are then transported to my HQ. Using Khaak-proof Hokkaidos for mining & cheap Bolos for transport, each with appropriate travel & trade blacklists to stop them going any further than necessary or interacting with any other faction. No problems whatsoever with mixed loads because every ship in the supply chain only ever deals with 1 specific cargo.

How do you move the ore/silicon off of the station?

Are you manually setting up each trade? Is there a way to automate this?
Setting them up as a trader, does not seem to work on my end.

[aquatica]

a propper fix would be
1: let us tell the miners WHAT to mine .....and not just let them automaticly mine 3 or 4 resources and than untill one is full ......
2:moving recourses to the universal container stuff ....so that even a transporter can transport ore ...or let transporters be able to transport resources too
3: put a basic command in for traders. to supply a station with get at A dropp it at B

Can do much of that already, without needing any mods. Recommend building something like these stations to help with mining logistics:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ajygdwg4fq0de ... 1.jpg?dl=0
Each of those stations in the foreground is configured to hold just 1 type of mineral & 1 type of gas, & has been assigned appropriate miners. Those resources are then transported to my HQ. Using Khaak-proof Hokkaidos for mining & cheap Bolos for transport, each with appropriate travel & trade blacklists to stop them going any further than necessary or interacting with any other faction. No problems whatsoever with mixed loads because every ship in the supply chain only ever deals with 1 specific cargo.

How do you move the ore/silicon off of the station?

Are you manually setting up each trade? Is there a way to automate this?
Setting them up as a trader, does not seem to work on my end.

Get a Mining ship and just assign it as a Trader. Not sure if you have to have Sell Order for Ore as well. Note, have 'em trading software installed on the ship.

[GCU Grey Area]

How do you move the ore/silicon off of the station?

Are you manually setting up each trade? Is there a way to automate this?
Setting them up as a trader, does not seem to work on my end.

It's all automatic. Bolos are assigned as traders for each of the mining station to handle transport of resources to my HQ. It has proved vital to ensure the mining outpost are correctly configured or nothing happens.

Setup that worked for me was to manually set the buy amount to full extent of storage capacity (i.e. 100k with L storage for ore or silicon), but leave the sell amount on automatic - essentially this means all of it is available for transport since there are no production modules. Have also manually set the selling prices for resources to minimum at each mining station, while at my HQ they're set to automatic. Thinking here is if I build additional stations they'll be supplied on the basis of need - stations which are running out will post trade offers with higher prices & be prioritised for the next delivery. Prices though are only nominal in this case - because I own all the stations no money is exchanged & there are trade rules set at my HQ for all basic resources to prevent it buying them from any other faction. Similarly my Bolo transports are also blacklisted to prevent them trading with other factions.

[Virtualaughing]

Place some resource probes in sectors with available Silicon. Silicon is available if yield is reasonable such as over 0.5. Examples of sectors with available Silicon are Asteroid Belt (poor, ~1.6 yield) and Family Zhin (good, 6+ yield).

This might be a bug that is being fixed in a future version. Even without available sectors they should still try to mine it based on the current storage levels.

Even if a neighbor sectorsystem contains everything miners like to fly around the map and still you need a trading station or something. Once Ice required too you are mostly doomed.
I think that this "buy" the problem. Why buy if a trader has a home base?
miners should go out for the least amount.

My player HQ has 10 miners. I has 2 miner group in Atiya. One for ore, one for silicon. It needs oversight and sometimes I give a miner from one group to another.

The trading station is good but after a certain period of time you manager gets too smart and jumprange 5.
I have big factory in Getsu Fune. I tried to forbid Hatikvah sector traver. So then i can see traders going 7-8 sectorsystem both doesnotmatterhowtocalculate Just to get to tharkas ricthes. Even if Savage next door is a really good candidate. So thenGetsu need a trader group which get stuff 1 jump sell in 0 jump. In that case i can not figure out how to forbid foreign trades. I have a restricted global command for sector travel i have it for who is to trade with default and for individual. The ship if not associated with a station only sees OFF or null with trade restriction. The manager individual settings contain it.

Solution. Miners try to load off all from cargo first. Then going for the least amount by percentage. Literally begging for mining problem solving to egosoft weeks ago multiple post about it. We all can not be as silly not to understand it. tryingsohardnottobeoffensivehere. forgive my english

[Virtualaughing]

How do you move the ore/silicon off of the station?

Are you manually setting up each trade? Is there a way to automate this?
Setting them up as a trader, does not seem to work on my end.

It's all automatic. Bolos are assigned as traders for each of the mining station to handle transport of resources to my HQ. It has proved vital to ensure the mining outpost are correctly configured or nothing happens.

Setup that worked for me was to manually set the buy amount to full extent of storage capacity (i.e. 100k with L storage for ore or silicon), but leave the sell amount on automatic - essentially this means all of it is available for transport since there are no production modules. Have also manually set the selling prices for resources to minimum at each mining station, while at my HQ they're set to automatic. Thinking here is if I build additional stations they'll be supplied on the basis of need - stations which are running out will post trade offers with higher prices & be prioritised for the next delivery. Prices though are only nominal in this case - because I own all the stations no money is exchanged & there are trade rules set at my HQ for all basic resources to prevent it buying them from any other faction. Similarly my Bolo transports are also blacklisted to prevent them trading with other factions.

My Terran full line chain tech factory using the minimum price if not adjusted manually. So no wonder why they rarely get stuff from such trading stations.
You can use any station as a trading station if the set stuff does not included in the production chain.
Food factory can be set up for trading gasses if not Terran.

EDIT:

Forgot to mention that if self sustaining terran station then it goes for ice well above the auto limiter. Then no room left for ore and silicon. So then you have to adjust manually the allocated space for ice. Otherwise not just the miners wont do their job properly. They literally won't have room to put silicon ore into.

[Virtualaughing]

Place some resource probes in sectors with available Silicon. Silicon is available if yield is reasonable such as over 0.5. Examples of sectors with available Silicon are Asteroid Belt (poor, ~1.6 yield) and Family Zhin (good, 6+ yield).

This might be a bug that is being fixed in a future version. Even without available sectors they should still try to mine it based on the current storage levels.

Thanks, there are plenty of silicon all over the place. Those miners even mine it, but they end up with something like 3000 ore and 800 silicon. And the moment the ore supply drops just a bit, they all go haywire and mine ore all over again.
I do not get it. Never had any problem with station mining before 4.0. Why are they ALWAYS messing with things that are working? And why did they have so many betas yet they release it in this screwed state?
As I mentioned, I am done. Even the most simple things are not working, fixing takes ages and the fix ususally breaks three other things. Sorry to be so blunt, but this is a total incompetence.

The problem you mention only occur if ore or silicon is full at the station. So the miner wont unload Ek ore then goes for silicon. When Ice in the picture i had literally dozens of miners near to full with ice. Going 5 sectors away to mine silicon. Problem is they mine 10 or even 20 silicon then go back. There is multiple reasons why the player can make things worse. Example you manually load off the ice but the other miner also want to unload ice so then it can not accomplish it's goal. Then they go out with almost full cargo not enough room for the desired stuff.

Creating station with solid or liquid storage and set trade wares to silicon and ore /helium/methane. 3/4 of the miners should be associated with mining, 1/4 for trading. Make a global command with restrict all factions and add your faction. Try to make a strategic point for the station. It will require the smallest container storage for drone parts.
Make sure the destination factories also have few miners. Check the auto pricing works properly and compare to the trading station prices.

[Imperial Good]

It will require the smallest container storage for drone parts.

Drones can be made without container storage. There is a special, hidden, drone parts storage.

The problem you mention only occur if ore or silicon is full at the station. So the miner wont unload Ek ore then goes for silicon. When Ice in the picture i had literally dozens of miners near to full with ice. Going 5 sectors away to mine silicon. Problem is they mine 10 or even 20 silicon then go back. There is multiple reasons why the player can make things worse. Example you manually load off the ice but the other miner also want to unload ice so then it can not accomplish it's goal. Then they go out with almost full cargo not enough room for the desired stuff.

This should only be an issue for mineables that have low demand. If ice is backing up then chances are your water processing or Terran consumable production facility is too small and is not burning through the Ice fast enough. Even if consumption is slow the miners should unload the ice over time as buy orders become available for it and no further Ice should be mined well the storage level of Ice is above that of all other mineables (which will be the case for a mineable that is not being consumed fast and miners are holding onto). If all mineable storage is full then it does not matter what wares the miners are holding onto since there is no shortage and they will have to idle or mine inefficiently due to station storage limits.

For this to all work as it should it is important that the mineable storage is sufficient enough that all subordinate miners can fully unload at least once should a ware be empty. This gives enough storage room for the regulation to work efficiently and not be prone to leaving mining ships holding unwanted wares while there is still high demand for one. With very high throughput it might be possible to go lower as this will smooth out the mining better, however I still recommend at least 1 hour of consumption worth of storage per ware.

[Jholern]

Thanks for the info. I was trying to get my miners to act as traders earlier to shuttle resources as it would solve this issue of Methane and silicon being ignored for the missing 100 Ice

I'll have to go back and take a look at the settings.

Thank you!

[Virtualaughing]

Spoiler

Show

It will require the smallest container storage for drone parts.

Drones can be made without container storage. There is a special, hidden, drone parts storage.

The problem you mention only occur if ore or silicon is full at the station. So the miner wont unload Ek ore then goes for silicon. When Ice in the picture i had literally dozens of miners near to full with ice. Going 5 sectors away to mine silicon. Problem is they mine 10 or even 20 silicon then go back. There is multiple reasons why the player can make things worse. Example you manually load off the ice but the other miner also want to unload ice so then it can not accomplish it's goal. Then they go out with almost full cargo not enough room for the desired stuff.

This should only be an issue for mineables that have low demand. If ice is backing up then chances are your water processing or Terran consumable production facility is too small and is not burning through the Ice fast enough. Even if consumption is slow the miners should unload the ice over time as buy orders become available for it and no further Ice should be mined well the storage level of Ice is above that of all other mineables (which will be the case for a mineable that is not being consumed fast and miners are holding onto). If all mineable storage is full then it does not matter what wares the miners are holding onto since there is no shortage and they will have to idle or mine inefficiently due to station storage limits.

For this to all work as it should it is important that the mineable storage is sufficient enough that all subordinate miners can fully unload at least once should a ware be empty. This gives enough storage room for the regulation to work efficiently and not be prone to leaving mining ships holding unwanted wares while there is still high demand for one. With very high throughput it might be possible to go lower as this will smooth out the mining better, however I still recommend at least 1 hour of consumption worth of storage per ware.
[/quote]
Thanks for explaining
I have tried to make low allocation for ice which somewhat helped. A food chain of five (5 each) can serve a huge factory complex.
I have plenty of individual food factories so I removed Ice from here and there. Since i have done that my huge self "sufficient" shipyard working like crazy.
I like to make builds based on uniformity and with 1x-5x-10x... each type of blocks. Not exactly based on support and demand. Even if you don't need as much of graphene or some basic stuff but Microchip maybe on shortage.
The "problems" of the game that has to be solved by the player at least makes some reality to the gameplay

EDIT: Forgot to mention that my factories mostly have equal amount of solidliquidcontainer storage. Sometimes is way too much which does not help with the auto pricing.....