Feature Request: Active Dock for Subordinates, also trade for build storage

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marsg2.1
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed, 7. Apr 10, 23:13

Feature Request: Active Dock for Subordinates, also trade for build storage

Post by marsg2.1 » Sat, 17. Apr 21, 07:41

I would like the option to change how subordinates set to docked status behave.

As it stands, whatever assignment a subordinate has, when toggled to 'Docked', they will, if they are able to, Dock with their respective commander, and there they will remain, oblivious to the world. This is fine for certain scenarios, such as a bombing wing assigned to a carrier, which would likely get picked off by enemy defenders before having much effect on their target.

When toggled to 'Launched', they will, when assigned to another ship, fly, badly, in formation with their commander, this effectively turns the defend assignment into an escort assignment, or, if assigned to a station, fly a loose perimeter patrol. This, again, has its use in some scenarios. This is also a useful toggle for launching a contingent, such as the previously mentioned 'Bombing' wing once you have thinned out the defenders.

I would like another option, an 'Actively Docked' setting, which would make subordinates remain docked, if they are able to, with their respective commander, be it a station, a carrier or other Capital ship, where there are available docks, be they internal or external, until a situation matching their assignment occurs.
For example: A destroyer sat in space that has 40 S class subordinates assigned to it, 10 figerters(Alpha) set to Intercept/Launched, who are flying as escorts, 10 are bombers(Beta) set to Attack/Docked, 10 are heavy fighters(Gamma) set to Attack/Active Dock and 10 are fighters(Delta) set to Defend//Active Dock.
While in 'safe' space, Beta, Gamma and Delta groups are all Docked while Alpha are flying in formation with carrier. While travelling through a hostile region an enemy squadron comes into range and moves to attack the destroyer Alpha group moves to intercept hostile fighters. The destroyer attacks incoming fighters also, causing Gamma to begin launching and attacking fighters. Some of the hostile fighters break through and land some hits on the carrier, which causes Delta to launch, along with any defence drones, to protect the destroyer after all hostiles are delt with Gamma and Delta then Dock with the carrier until they are needed again.

For a station, an example would be, 10 S fighter 5 M corvettes(Alpha) set to Defend/launched, who are patrolling around the station. 10S and 5 M (Beta) set to Defend/Active Dock and some M freighter (Gamma) set to Tade/Active Dock. During normal operation Beta would remain docked, preferably in internal storage, until a hostile attacks the station, at which point they would launch to deal with the aggressor. Basically acting like a defence drone, but with more teeth. Alpha would patrol and engage hostiles as normal. Gamma would remain docked until it has an actual order and would not need to undock empty, then dock again to pick up ware after finding a trade. As it is now traders idle around stations, just waiting to be shot at, when they are searching for trades. For my largest Trading station which has 15+ traders assigned to it this is kind of annoying when coupled with dozens of NPC traders doing the same thing, I sometimes end up with 30 odd freighter swarming my station causing traffic jams as they bump and bounce off each other. It was amusing at first is kind of annoying with so many all doing it. Miners suffer similarly around my minging base, though they don't idle for so long.

Auxiliary ships have a similar issue with idle traders., in that they don't dock and trail behind when the Auxiliary is moving.

Traders also seem to ignore the 'Docked' toggle entirely, as setting this option does not change their behavior. They continue to undock and idle and if they were set to 'Launched'. I assume this is a bug.

As for the 'Trade for Build Storage'. Why is this separate from normal trades? If the station wants it, just go and get it. This option makes partial sense if you want to make it so that build wares are prioritised, but then they completely ignore normal trades. The opposite is true in the case of Trade. Please allow an option to Trade for both with either as a priority.

Thanks for reading. Typed more than I initially intended, but wanted explain in detail.

Anyway happy gaming.

Edit corrected mistype

dtpsprt
Posts: 2794
Joined: Wed, 6. Nov 02, 20:31
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Re: Feature Request: Active Dock for Subordinates, also trade for build storage

Post by dtpsprt » Sat, 17. Apr 21, 11:14

Sorry to put some "cold water" in the mix but such a set of orders would be meaningful only in certain Carriers (especially the Raptor) and in stations if they have an abundance of S docks, the Terran ones not included because the S ships have to "find" their way out of the dock(!!!).
Other than that in such a scenario as you describe, the best Destroyer for this job (Odysseus) has only 4 S docks which means that it can launch 4 S ships at a time. In the "scenario" there are 10 ships already launched which leaves another 30 to be launched, which means 8 launch cycles!!! Everything will have finished before this happens... And then, if (as you say) this happens "en route", they'll have to dock back!!! The Destroyer will never (so to speak) reach it's destination this way... And, mind you, I am not talking about the Rattlesnake that has only 1 S dock!!! while all the others have two...

marsg2.1
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed, 7. Apr 10, 23:13

Re: Feature Request: Active Dock for Subordinates, also trade for build storage

Post by marsg2.1 » Sat, 17. Apr 21, 13:39

Ha! Your 'cold water' is fine, it is getting hot in here with all the cursing at my defenders :lol:

I want it as an option, primarily due to the AI escorting, as in the escorts are way behind or heading in the wrong direction, or, with the station chasing a XEN S as it passes through and ignoring the rattlesnake harassing my freighters. Ideally the freighter escort would deal with this, however, they're back 'there', taking selfies in a nebula, or, something.

The real problem is the AI pathing, which, has been problem since game release, despite numerous pleas to fix it. I just asked for a mechanic that is already functioning well, as in with defence drone, to be made available to my escort ships. Figured it would be fairly simple to implement compared to rescripting the entire AI.

In the case of the destroyer, or any L/XL ship, I don't understand why the AI is oblivious to the "Relative Flight" feature. It affects NPC ships as I have ended up dragging an idling NPC a short distance as I passed close to it. One of the formations actually makes 2 maybe 3 of my escorts occasionally get caught in its AOE. Perhaps a "Hug Hull" command or formation, or even having the "hug" trigger automatically on all S/M ships when charging travel drive.

In the case of the station, I would mainly use it to have a better equipped defence drone that can handle L ships better than actual drones. All of my station have at least 2 1M6S modules, and I would happily build more to better suit this function.

It is odd that you mention the terran dock with regards to NPCs "finding" the exit. I have yet to see an NPC get stuck when undocking from them. I have, on several occasions, seen NPC's get "lost" in the hooded part of the simple or standard 1M6S dock, often clipping through and getting stuck for several minutes, but not on the terran 10S4M dock. The only time I have seen an NPC get stuck in 1 was during the terran mission to protect the Getsu Fune Defence station from Xenon. It was a Xenon ship that slammed into the top of the dock module clipped through into the bay area where it proceeded to shoot the place up, unabated by NPCs, who were still trying to shoot it from outside.

Maybe 10 ships all launching at once from the terran dock be a bit more tricky for the AI though, but, if this was, indeed, an issue, I would just build another 1M6S dock or 2.

I get that dock cycle time would cause a bottleneck on destroyers, but it is definable, where as when the escorts will catch-up is more a-kin to "Not sure, when he is finished with his selfie and had a quick cuppa."

I am just trying to offer a quicker workaround as AI script improvements are taking forever. :|

Admiral Sausage
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon, 28. Jan 19, 23:30

Re: Feature Request: Active Dock for Subordinates, also trade for build storage

Post by Admiral Sausage » Sun, 18. Apr 21, 17:44

Another situation where this would be useful is for factory stations that only trade their outputs, never buying anything. As it is now, when one of the station traders finishes a trade, it will be left "searching for trades" up to 5 sectors away from where it needs to be to start the next trade. If instead they automatically returned to the station and docked, they could start loading wares the instant the next trade was found. Even if the station does buy wares too, it's probably still better on average for the station traders to start off on the station.

marsg2.1
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed, 7. Apr 10, 23:13

Re: Feature Request: Active Dock for Subordinates, also trade for build storage

Post by marsg2.1 » Mon, 19. Apr 21, 07:29

Yes, I agree entirely. I get that the NPC is clearing the docking bay for other ships, but I thought that was what the internal bays were for.

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