The pacifist option

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jlehtone
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 19. Oct 20, 17:05

:gruebel: An inventory item that Pirates consume instead of attacking?


OT: I was trailing a FAF Rattlesnake. (Painting it as red target for the sector security.) Alas, there was no sector security.
Since I had scanned the ship, I saw its current command. It was targeting bypassing traffic ("Attacking xxx"), but
did not chase far (and there was no SCA-style "You have good cargo" radio chatter).

The interesting part was that it did target Miners too.
Goner Pancake Protector X
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pref
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by pref » Mon, 19. Oct 20, 17:21

FAF has a chance to get a kill order instead of the usual pirate harassment.

zazie
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by zazie » Tue, 20. Oct 20, 10:06

@jlehtone: Nur sure if I understand what you mean. The reward is NOT an inventory item. It changes the behavior of Pirate ships. How long is depending on the 'difficulty' of the mission.
In addition I have the impression that the radius of pirate's changed behavior is larger when doing hard or impossible missions.

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Nort The Fragrent
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Wed, 21. Oct 20, 03:06

Having an economy dependent on wars is rather simple, an easy thorn to promote regeneration from destruction.
Yet the recent Covid outbreak has shown the other alternative to economic upheaval.
As so many are now not traveling they are spending up large at home, and the shops can not cope with demand !
The other forms of destruction are Natural events, be they weather, Tectonic, celestial.
There are many ways to deplete stock, elevate demand, with unforeseen natural events perpetrating constant imbalance.
So a peaceful universe can be as dynamic for the economy as a waring one.

Using war to prod the economy is the easy option, but not the only option available.
The game just needs some economic tweaks, and a peaceful game can be as dynamic as a waring one!

pref
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by pref » Wed, 21. Oct 20, 14:13

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Wed, 21. Oct 20, 03:06
Using war to prod the economy is the easy option, but not the only option available.
The game just needs some economic tweaks, and a peaceful game can be as dynamic as a waring one!
Feels weird that
- food is not consumed without the workforce bonus
- ship/station materials are not in constant demand, even without forced ship/station repairs (that could get annoying quick imo for non eco oriented playstyles) there should be some consumption representing amortisation
- drugs are the only wares that player can base production on reliably, all other markets can be saturated rather quickly to an extent that player cannot get an acceptable income from it

Secondary resources in X3 were a nice way of dealing with this imo. Even if they do not increase production they would allow the economy to roll regardless of ship and station quotas.

Generally pretending that self sufficient economy can be simulated on such a small scale game performance allows for was a bad idea.

dtpsprt
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by dtpsprt » Wed, 21. Oct 20, 14:36

pref wrote:
Wed, 21. Oct 20, 14:13
Generally pretending that self sufficient economy can be simulated on such a small scale game performance allows for was a bad idea.
The really bad idea was making a commercial game (that will be viewed, reviewed and criticised by the "general public" that has payed or is ready to pay for it) based on a still developing engine.
There is a reason why professionals always stay at least one step behind the "cutting edge" of technology. It has all it's bugs either ironed out or, at least, known and anticipated for.

That said, 99% of "Space" games is centred on war one way or another, as if aliens are so similar with Earthlings that they can not live or solve any problem without it... so... no surprise there...

pref
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by pref » Wed, 21. Oct 20, 15:27

dtpsprt wrote:
Wed, 21. Oct 20, 14:36
based on a still developing engine.
The engine is pretty solid imo. What did not get nearly enough attention was the game scripting.

dtpsprt
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by dtpsprt » Wed, 21. Oct 20, 18:35

pref wrote:
Wed, 21. Oct 20, 15:27
The engine is pretty solid imo. What did not get nearly enough attention was the game scripting.
Just take an internet "stroll" in Vulkan... they are still releasing Betas and Hotfixes...
Think about it every time you get face to face with those Argons (and now Terrans) or you are one of them.
Think about it twice as your fleet does not travel in unison and a part of it tries to cross Xenon territory so never arrives.
Think about it thrice every time you get stuck in the elevator, or trying to "talk" to an NPC for a mission and you have to save and reload.
BTW you don't have to think about it when you have to completely close X4 and start it again because your map is filled with yellow lines and you don't see the real guideline.
Don't even think why the map is obscuring everything on screen, or why 20 words mission descriptions have to take the whole screen and accept/decline is in the a*s end of the screen in the opposite direction (usually obscured by my mug of coffee but that's just me).
Of course the FPS drop in the map and on station, or the time that your game will become too complex (happens with 100 stations and 1000 ships moving around) and just crawl no matter what you do, so you have to leave your empire just before achieving Galactic domination has nothing to do both with the graphic environment and the game engine (why we should need all these above mentioned stations and ships still boggles my mind but it's just me).

CBJ
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by CBJ » Wed, 21. Oct 20, 18:51

Stay on topic in this thread please. We don't need yet another thread where you list all the things you think are wrong with the game engine.

Socratatus
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by Socratatus » Tue, 27. Oct 20, 17:46

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Sun, 18. Oct 20, 20:15
I play a peaceful game, I run with no guns.
Just trade, explore, build stations, and have fleets of ships, wondering around.
Never have gone into battle.
It took a while for the game to settle down, the Xenon have vanished.
I get the odd ship that gets lost, sort of expect that from time to time.

ES are Gun crazy, the game is heavily weighted toward war, conflict, and destruction.
I can not get any advancement with some faction’s unless I kill stuff for them.
This is stupid.
There needs to be a way to get faction increase without having to fight.

My economy is slow, but still works, and I have Billions and thus can keep doing what I like. Thats flying around, taking in the sights, and enjoying a very peaceful universe.
Just what I want.

It would be nice to have better peaceful ways to progress, but ES are blinkered to this Gun slinging, killing. They think it’s what people want. There are lots who do not.

Promote peace not War.
Nice fantasy. But the reality is that everything involves conflict. Plants fight for space and light, animals fight for territory and domination. Humans also fight for territory, space and survival. Even our bodies are constantly in a battle against disease that constantly tries to overcomne us. The Human race isn`t here because wildlife/disease/Nature decided to take a day off. We earned our place.

Where there is a gap, something will always fight to take over and something must fight to defend it. It`s a Law of Nature.

Also, total peace makes for a dull game.
"If you`re looking for that one person who can change your life, take a look in the mirror."
"No problem can withstand the assault of sustained thinking."
"Don`t raise your voice. improve your argument."
"Some men are morally opposed to violence. They are protected by men who are not."

zazie
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by zazie » Tue, 27. Oct 20, 18:10

From your signature
Socratatus wrote:
Tue, 27. Oct 20, 17:46
"Some men are morally opposed to violence. They are protected by men who are not."
"No problem can withstand the assault of sustained thinking."
Socratatus wrote:
Tue, 27. Oct 20, 17:46
Nice fantasy (... )
Now think. Think harder.

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oddible
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Re: The pacifist option

Post by oddible » Wed, 28. Oct 20, 00:20

Nort The Fragrent wrote:
Sun, 18. Oct 20, 20:15
There needs to be a way to get faction increase without having to fight.
Trades increase faction rep.

You guys do know that the OP dropped this little bomb then left the building. He's never been back to post a reply - not even sure if he's reading this. So we have zero idea what kind of "passive" he wants. Like many have said, you don't have to build a single gun or turret in this game. Just pumping the economy of the factions around you can have them take care of all those XEN and KHA forces. As far as pirates, you can increase your faction rep with them and they can be your pirate bros too!

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