super confused about supply ships - Improvements coming.

[Tamina]

Repairing does not need supplies as repairing is free.

Supply ships must be assigned to resupply a fleet, and it will repair and resupply all S/M/L/XL in that fleet. Carriers will only resupply and repair S/M ships that are subordinates of them.

I never tried resupply mechanics, however last I tested repair mechanics did work correctly. To testI even purposely shot up some ships and they went to repair.

Then this is definitly not working for me correctly. My carrier has multiple damaged fighters on board, none of which are repaired. I will wait and see what j.harshaw comes up with tomorrow regarding resupplying ships, which also does not work for me as well, might be interconnected.

[Vertigo 7]

Thanks for the feedback. Should maybe make that clearer in the wiki? Trying to keep it from bombarding the player with too much information, but something being unclear's not good.

@Vertigo, took a quick look at that save and there is indeed something wrong going on. Will have to look in more detail tomorrow.

That save looks familiar, by the way. Where'd you stash the old Roci?

Hah! Good eye! Nice to find a fellow Expanse fan out there. Can't wait to see what Amazon does with the series!

Poor Roci got blowed up =( K jumped in while I wasn't paying attention. That was like the 3rd ship I bought since I started too.

[Falcrack]

I had a supply ship assigned to a carrier, which carrier also had 40 fighters and 7 destroyers as subordinates, many of which were missile armed. I noticed after a long time fighting, that some of the fighters who had exhausted their missiles were heading back to the supply ship in order to replenish their missile supplies. Some destroyers that had gotten damaged turrets docked with it to get repaired. All without me giving explicit orders. So it does that, at least.

[Vertigo 7]

I had a supply ship assigned to a carrier, which carrier also had 40 fighters and 7 destroyers as subordinates, many of which were missile armed. I noticed after a long time fighting, that some of the fighters who had exhausted their missiles were heading back to the supply ship in order to replenish their missile supplies. Some destroyers that had gotten damaged turrets docked with it to get repaired. All without me giving explicit orders. So it does that, at least.

was the supply ship a direct sub of the carrier or further down the chain?

[Falcrack]

I had a supply ship assigned to a carrier, which carrier also had 40 fighters and 7 destroyers as subordinates, many of which were missile armed. I noticed after a long time fighting, that some of the fighters who had exhausted their missiles were heading back to the supply ship in order to replenish their missile supplies. Some destroyers that had gotten damaged turrets docked with it to get repaired. All without me giving explicit orders. So it does that, at least.

was the supply ship a direct sub of the carrier or further down the chain?

Supply ship was a direct sub of the carrier, as were all other ships in the fleet. Everything was a direct sub of the carrier. I have found that having sub wings below the carrier doesn't work very well. Hopefully 2.6 or 3.0 will address this.

[Vertigo 7]

I just noticed that the crew on the ship overview (from targeting) says 221/222, though I have a captain and full compliment (220) of service crew. Is there a hidden position for like a ship trader or trade manager or some such? If so, wonder if the "unknown" crew member isn't present to make the supply functions work? Just a thought...

[j.harshaw]

was the supply ship a direct sub of the carrier or further down the chain?

Supply ship was a direct sub of the carrier

(quote truncated for clarity)

For both fleet auxiliary ships and carriers, doesn't matter where in the fleet hierarchy it is. It will be available to repair and rearm any ships connected to that hierarchy.
Ships directly subordinate to a carrier that can dock at it will prefer the carrier.
Note that this includes dispersed hierarchies such as those whose ultimate commander is a station.

_____
Alright.

Test scenario:
- loaded up Vertigo 7's save.
- assigned IWSS Mercy to supply Wing 8 via Supply Fleet command.

First: Currently, if a ship needs ammo and it can't find a place that can supply all of the ammo it needs, it won't get any. This will be improved in a future build such that it will get what it can.

Second: There is a logic routine that, when a ship needs repairs and ammo and cannot get the ammo, it should go in for repairs anyway. That is broken for player-owned ships in the current public build. Fix on the way.
- Ships that need just repairs and nothing else should get repaired with the current build, however.

Third: Fleet auxiliary ships assigned to provide supplies in space, rather than being assigned to supply a fleet, does not work at the moment. They are available for supplies, but ships don't look for them. Fix on the way.

_____
Imperial Good is correct. Repairs currently do not require supplies. With the current build, carriers and fleet auxiliary ships (together referred to as resupply ships) will repair any damaged subordinates as long as those subordinates only need repairs. If they also need ammo, units, or deployables and the resupply ship does not have enough supplies, it will not repair them. As mentioned above, that they do not get repaired if they also need something else is a bug that will be fixed in a future update. Please note that ships do not automatically get repaired when they dock unless they go to get repairs. So if, for example, you order a damaged ship to dock at a carrier, it will not get repaired. It has to either be:

- a subordinate of the carrier (not necessarily a direct subordinate), in which case it will check when it joins the fleet, or when it rejoins the fleet after a fight. (technically, when the AI script order.fight.escort starts.)
- or have been given an explicit order to Repair at the carrier.

@Vertigo 7, you might want to top off the Mercy. She's running low on energy cells.

[Vertigo 7]

yeah so i was dinking around with some stuff and found out that the supply ships can build their own equipment, satellites, missiles, etc. but what's weird is if i change the resupply level like from high to low, it'll eat up the drones it has. but anywho, yeah the behavior doesn't change whether i have it in a fleet or not with full stock on supplies. i can manually reload them and it'll build all the missiles it's asked for, but auto reloading doesn't seem to work at all.

I have a theory that the reloading is actually using the default low/medium/high presets for the individual ship types. I'm just about to test that theory...

[Vertigo 7]

yep, that's what it is, at least i'm pretty sure. so the mino i have built out there is using paranid engines, teladi shields, tracking launchers, and paranid turrets. i think the key there is the tracking launchers. the low and medium default presets are for dumbfire launchers and the high is for torp launchers. none of the missles for those presets would fit the tracking launcher so it can't rearm anywhere.

to test this, i built a 2nd mino with the default high preset and dropped its torps down to 1. sure enough, it went to go rearm

Edit*

If I'm right about this, i think it would be beneficial to allow custom preset choices for rearming. That way it builds like say cluster missiles when we want those instead of smart missiles.

[Tamina]

yep, that's what it is, at least i'm pretty sure. so the mino i have built out there is using paranid engines, teladi shields, tracking launchers, and paranid turrets. i think the key there is the tracking launchers. the low and medium default presets are for dumbfire launchers and the high is for torp launchers. none of the missles for those presets would fit the tracking launcher so it can't rearm anywhere.

to test this, i built a 2nd mino with the default high preset and dropped its torps down to 1. sure enough, it went to go rearm

Edit*

If I'm right about this, i think it would be beneficial to allow custom preset choices for rearming. That way it builds like say cluster missiles when we want those instead of smart missiles.

That is what I was asking you before when I asked you if they have Torpedo launchers equipped. Since there is no information about how the low/med/high settings actually work and what they do resupply. In the video you provided it was clearly visible that the incoming ship equipped another missile type (Smart instead of Swarm).

[...]Imperial Good is correct. Repairs currently do not require supplies. With the current build, carriers and fleet auxiliary ships (together referred to as resupply ships) will repair any damaged subordinates as long as those subordinates only need repairs. If they also need ammo, units, or deployables and the resupply ship does not have enough supplies, it will not repair them. As mentioned above, that they do not get repaired if they also need something else is a bug that will be fixed in a future update. Please note that ships do not automatically get repaired when they dock unless they go to get repairs. So if, for example, you order a damaged ship to dock at a carrier, it will not get repaired.[...]

Thank you very much. I found something out though: If the carrier itself is a subordinate in a fleet, ships do not automatically repair and I bet they do not automatically reequip as well. Removing the carrier from the fleet, makes it work correctly.
I tested this by adding a damaged fighter to a subordinate-carrier (land but no repair command), then kicked the carrier out of the fleet and added the damaged fighter again (repair command issued). In both cases the carrier was set to "resupply off".

There is actually another issue as well that causes subordinate-fighters to re-dock at their carrier, when their carrier is a subordinate and its commander gets attacked - but I am opening another bug report for that as I am not sure who is responsible for that.

[Vertigo 7]

yeah so my theory about what they supply was based on my dinking around with the support ships auto resupply setting AND I have a behemoth with tracking launchers. The behemoth did rearm when set to medium but it didn't fully stock up on missiles even though it could have. Checked the medium build for behemoths and yep, tracking launchers and 160 missiles. I took a closer look at the low/medium/high presets for the nomad, low preset only has like 20 drones. so it reduced its own stock of drones to match as well as tried to build all of the other consumables it has.

The more and more i look at this, the more im convinced that the low/med/high resupply is an exact match to the low/med/high build presets with the consumables included. so if you want to know what the resupply numbers are, look at the build presets.

[Vertigo 7]

was the supply ship a direct sub of the carrier or further down the chain?

Supply ship was a direct sub of the carrier

(quote truncated for clarity)

For both fleet auxiliary ships and carriers, doesn't matter where in the fleet hierarchy it is. It will be available to repair and rearm any ships connected to that hierarchy.
Ships directly subordinate to a carrier that can dock at it will prefer the carrier.
Note that this includes dispersed hierarchies such as those whose ultimate commander is a station.

_____
Alright.

Test scenario:
- loaded up Vertigo 7's save.
- assigned IWSS Mercy to supply Wing 8 via Supply Fleet command.

First: Currently, if a ship needs ammo and it can't find a place that can supply all of the ammo it needs, it won't get any. This will be improved in a future build such that it will get what it can.

Second: There is a logic routine that, when a ship needs repairs and ammo and cannot get the ammo, it should go in for repairs anyway. That is broken for player-owned ships in the current public build. Fix on the way.
- Ships that need just repairs and nothing else should get repaired with the current build, however.

Third: Fleet auxiliary ships assigned to provide supplies in space, rather than being assigned to supply a fleet, does not work at the moment. They are available for supplies, but ships don't look for them. Fix on the way.

So I can confirm that supply ships will do repairs just fine, with the exception of ships that need ammo or w/e that the supply ships can't provide. So with the ships low/med/high presets calling for ammo that their current builds can't use, will that be addressed? I also see another problem with supply ships not advertising trades. I don't know what triggers it but they seem to get stuck not putting out trade offers for any resources they're short on.

[j.harshaw]

So with the ships low/med/high presets calling for ammo that their current builds can't use, will that be addressed?

Ok, test scenario: your save except i built a Minotaur Vanguard with high preset, got torpedo launchers. Removed all ammo. Set auto-resupply threshold to low. With the latest fixes, the ship went to get torpedoes, which is what i would have expected.

To be clear, yes, the low/medium/high setting for auto-resupply is related to the low/medium/high loadout presets when building or purchasing ships. However, if you have a ship that has a weapon that has a higher loadout threshold than its current auto-resupply setting (for example: ship with torpedo launchers with auto-resupply set to low), it will still get ammo for that weapon.

The effect of the low preset in this case is that:
- its ammo stores would have to be lower for the ship's crew to consider the ammo stores as running low,
- and it would tend to get less ammo at a time when it does rearm.

I also see another problem with supply ships not advertising trades. I don't know what triggers it but they seem to get stuck not putting out trade offers for any resources they're short on.

Would like a save for this if you have one handy. Trigger is them running the SupplyFleet order which is given by either assigning them to "Supply this fleet" to another ship, or by setting the "Supply Fleet" behavior.

[Vertigo 7]

So with the ships low/med/high presets calling for ammo that their current builds can't use, will that be addressed?

Ok, test scenario: your save except i built a Minotaur Vanguard with high preset, got torpedo launchers. Removed all ammo. Set auto-resupply threshold to low. With the latest fixes, the ship went to get torpedoes, which is what i would have expected.

To be clear, yes, the low/medium/high setting for auto-resupply is related to the low/medium/high loadout presets when building or purchasing ships. However, if you have a ship that has a weapon that has a higher loadout threshold than its current auto-resupply setting (for example: ship with torpedo launchers with auto-resupply set to low), it will still get ammo for that weapon.

The effect of the low preset in this case is that:
- its ammo stores would have to be lower for the ship's crew to consider the ammo stores as running low,
- and it would tend to get less ammo at a time when it does rearm.

I also see another problem with supply ships not advertising trades. I don't know what triggers it but they seem to get stuck not putting out trade offers for any resources they're short on.

Would like a save for this if you have one handy. Trigger is them running the SupplyFleet order which is given by either assigning them to "Supply this fleet" to another ship, or by setting the "Supply Fleet" behavior.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ao9uUVCbKVPzgfAAfqQ ... g?e=gSI570

I placed the Mercy to supply Ship Tech Factory 1 and Defiant to defend the station.

So I manually rearmed the Defiant, and the Mercy isn't advertising trades. Also, I can't seem to get the Defiant to auto rearm anymore. It's done it before, but I'm having to manually rearm it.

[j.harshaw]

thanks. heading out in ten minutes, but will try to check on Monday.

[Vertigo 7]

thanks. heading out in ten minutes, but will try to check on Monday.

No worries! Thanks for having a look! Enjoy your weekend =)

[j.harshaw]

actually, think i found the problem.

[j.harshaw]

fix confirmed. future update.

need to catch my bus! have a good weekend!

[Vertigo 7]

fix confirmed. future update.

need to catch my bus! have a good weekend!

you are super fast! you are the man, sir.

[j.harshaw]

I found something out though: If the carrier itself is a subordinate in a fleet, ships do not automatically repair and I bet they do not automatically reequip as well.

Checked the code earlier and ships should find the subordinate carrier as well. Would you happen to have a save where it doesn't? I'll set something up on Monday as well, but I suspect it isn't as straightforward as you described.

There is actually another issue as well that causes subordinate-fighters to re-dock at their carrier, when their carrier is a subordinate and its commander gets attacked - but I am opening another bug report for that as I am not sure who is responsible for that.

Yes, please. Another thread for this would be good to reduce the chance of losing it.