Station Managers Engineering Skill improving?

[Scoob]

Hey all,

So, my zero star across the board manager has been working on my station quite a while now, so I thought I'd check out how she's doing skill-wise. Here are the somewhat unexpected results, considering she's just been managing my Station since being hired dirt cheap much earlier in the game:

Management: 0
Morale: 1/3rd
Boarding: 0
Engineering: 1 and 2/3rds
Piloting: 0

I'm wondering why my Station Manager appears to have improved her Engineering skills and not her Management ones? Both Management and Morale and emboldened, showing that they are the key skills for the role.

Any ideas?

Scoob.

[Imperial Good]

Any ideas?

Repairing the station?

If you want to grind management then you want to sell product at maximum price and transfer it back onto the station using a ship. It is tedious but as long as you are moving all the sell order (0 remaining to sell) with each operation then in an hour or so can get about 3-4 stars in management.

[Scoob]

Maybe, but I didn't think the manager got involved in any repairs...not that my station has ever deployed its repair drones.

Heh, that's a bit cheesy, I'll not be doing that. Though I still think it's very odd that days of being a manager at a busy station still = zero stars in management.

Then again, Employees gaining levels has been screwy since launch for me. it generally works better now, but I've had two pilots full-time manual trading and one gains levels where the other does not. I've got Pilots patrolling where some gain levels and other do not, despite being deployed at the same time.

I just hope crew training actually becomes a thing at some point as it's a little frustrating when you're stuck with a dumb Pilot and entire playthrough and they never get better.

Scoob.

[Kernel Panic]

I can confirm that station managers are getting XP in Engineering on stations that have taken no damage. Also, their management skill is not raising. Perhaps people should actually test for bugs before posting crazy ideas about what is going on.

[Imperial Good]

I can confirm that station managers are getting XP in Engineering on stations that have taken no damage. Also, their management skill is not raising. Perhaps people should actually test for bugs before posting crazy ideas about what is going on.

I admit I have not played heavily since 2.50 B6, but I know managers were gaining management and morale back then as I was using the exploit described above to grind a manager to 4-5 stars. If it no longer works this would be the result of regression between the beta and release.

I will look at the data files for 2.50 release in case anything stands out.

EDIT: Nothing looks wrong from the data side. Scripts to award experience with station trades and ship construction still exist and no modification appears to have been made to prevent it from occurring. The experience gain rate tables were not modified at all between 2.21 and 2.50.

[Scoob]

My station is self-sufficient with mining ships providing raw resources and just two ships selling MIcrochips. Is experience gained for each load of resources dropped off? It's a constant stream of M-Class Miners at the station and literally a minute doesn't go by without a new one arriving. The selling ships are a little more slow. For whatever reason, while they do sell produce, they'll often sit waiting for several minutes after selling, before they return to collect more - despite there being MANY trade opportunities at the asking price. I was going to add more Freighters, but when I did before the waiting got worse.

The station has made about 25 million credits over the past few play sessions, I don't know if money gained / spent influences experience gain. Of course those Mining ships aren't being paid for their loads.

Perhaps the factory simply hasn't been running long enough?

On the flip side, the totally rookie crew I placed on my Odysseus are all three star Engineering now, and two start Morale, having risen from zero in both. They've had to repair the ship a couple of times. Pilots on other ships I have patrolling - including the Odysseus - have only gained one star. This is despite the Odysseus being VERY active in combat, and other ships just patrolling with no encounters - star gain is the same.

While Experience being displayed in Stars is fine as a summary, I'd like to see actual numbers - say each star is 1,000 points for example - so it's easy to see what actions grant experience. Either that, or pop a little plus sign (+) by Crew skills when their current action is gaining experience in that skill. It'd add clarity.

Scoob.

[Imperial Good]

My station is self-sufficient with mining ships providing raw resources and just two ships selling MIcrochips. Is experience gained for each load of resources dropped off? It's a constant stream of M-Class Miners at the station and literally a minute doesn't go by without a new one arriving. The selling ships are a little more slow. For whatever reason, while they do sell produce, they'll often sit waiting for several minutes after selling, before they return to collect more - despite there being MANY trade opportunities at the asking price. I was going to add more Freighters, but when I did before the waiting got worse.

Managers gain experience from the following.

• Ships produced. S and M ships worth less than L and XL. This is a very good source of experience.
• Fulfilling sell or buy orders at the station. The rate is based off the sale or purchase price (best a maximum sale price and minimum purchase price). The fraction is the fraction of the offer fulfilled, with 100% being that no amount is left on offer after the action.

As such for optimum management gain one either wants the manger to operate a Warf or Shipyard, or to have little storage and be buying wares at a very low price and selling wares at a very high price.

One can exploit this by manually ordering a trade ship to buy or spell wares with the station and then transferring those wares back to the starting state so one can repeat the process forever. As long as the offers are being completely emptied during the buy or sell orders the manager will gain experience fast.

The station has made about 25 million credits over the past few play sessions, I don't know if money gained / spent influences experience gain. Of course those Mining ships aren't being paid for their loads.

No money earned does not generate experience. You can max a manager without a station ever earning money.

On the flip side, the totally rookie crew I placed on my Odysseus are all three star Engineering now, and two start Morale, having risen from zero in both. They've had to repair the ship a couple of times. Pilots on other ships I have patrolling - including the Odysseus - have only gained one star. This is despite the Odysseus being VERY active in combat, and other ships just patrolling with no encounters - star gain is the same.

Patrolling does not give experience. Attacking and killing ships does. Repairing gives engineering.

While Experience being displayed in Stars is fine as a summary, I'd like to see actual numbers - say each star is 1,000 points for example - so it's easy to see what actions grant experience. Either that, or pop a little plus sign (+) by Crew skills when their current action is gaining experience in that skill. It'd add clarity.

Each star is 3 levels so there are 15 levels in total. The amount of experience per level remains constant, 1 level worth of experience, but the rate at which experience is gained decreases with level based on the values specified by the experience gain tables. Some actions have a lower limit, so it might not be possible to level up a manager to 5 stars unless they are building ships or selling and buying at the best rates. Like wise a captain killing trashy S and M ships might never level past 3 stars but might if they kill a lot of L and XL ships.

[Scoob]

Thanks for the detailed breakdown, I appreciate it.

Scoob.

[Scoob]

Going slightly off-topic in my own thread, but I was wondering if there's any benefit to Pilots / Captains with a high Engineering skill?

Basically, when I capture a ship, I bring it back to my Odysseus and assign one of the deck crew as a captain, then send it on its way. The deck crew on this ship are all at least three Stars in Engineering, but is this skill wasted on a Pilot / Captain? For that matter, is there any value to skilled Service Crew on an S-Class ship? They don't repair, from what I can tell.

Scoob.

[Mantrae]

The amount of experience per level remains constant, 1 level worth of experience, but the rate at which experience is gained decreases with level based on the values specified by the experience gain tables. Some actions have a lower limit, so it might not be possible to level up a manager to 5 stars unless they are building ships or selling and buying at the best rates. Like wise a captain killing trashy S and M ships might never level past 3 stars but might if they kill a lot of L and XL ships.

I got two manager selling goods with autoprice on, and they've reached 5 stars. Can't tell how long it take (less than 100h), but it can be done. I suppose it is just about quantity if you let it auto. Then it's probably the same for piloting and other stuff... it just take time.

But I agree with something : some orders don't give exp at all. Never a captain have gain stars in piloting doing patroll. Same thing with automining. BUT if the ship is doing theses orders being part of a station (aka the manager choose them to do it), then they gain xp from theses orders. Got a ton of mineer 5 stars piloting... but none of the ones doing it selling the stuff to npc stations.

[Imperial Good]

But I agree with something : some orders don't give exp at all. Never a captain have gain stars in piloting doing patroll. Same thing with automining. BUT if the ship is doing theses orders being part of a station (aka the manager choose them to do it), then they gain xp from theses orders. Got a ton of mineer 5 stars piloting... but none of the ones doing it selling the stuff to npc stations.

This is due to the price at which the trades are being made. Selling for near maximum price gives tons of experience while selling for low prices (the tendency of auto miners) gives very little if not no experience (due to limits).

As mentioned above, using this knowledge one can exploit the system to kind of power level stuff (hours as opposed to never).

[j.harshaw]

The deck crew on this ship are all at least three Stars in Engineering, but is this skill wasted on a Pilot / Captain?

It is. Only Piloting and Morale are relevant for captains.

Some activities give experience in skills which are not directly relevant to their current jobs so that they could eventually be decent at other jobs. Attempt was made to do this where it make sense, things like trading sometimes improving Management or pulling a station apart giving insight to how stations are put together, thus sometimes improving Engineering.

For that matter, is there any value to skilled Service Crew on an S-Class ship? They don't repair, from what I can tell.

Yes. Most of the skill checks take the skill of the controlling entity (pilot/captain in the case of a ship) AND their crew into account. Captain skill has the lion's share, but a ship won't perform at 100% with a 5-star captain and no crew.

[Scoob]

Thanks. I guess the one bonus making my experienced Engineers into Captains has is that their Morale has increased to two stars during their time on the Odysseus. It is Morale that influences experience gain isn't it?

Scoob.

[j.harshaw]

It is Morale that influences experience gain isn't it?

Do you mean more morale meaning bigger chance to gain experience? No, although wish i had thought of that pre-release. Morale is just another skill. It is, however, a very important skill because it's used by all role types, and it contributes to their competence. It is also used in things like determining how likely a ship is to flee.

[Scoob]

Ah, I see. I read elsewhere that a characters Morale level influenced their experience gain, must have been misinformation.

Still, at least my ex-Engineers will be a *little* more competent as Pilots thanks to their two start plus Morale.

Scoob.

[Imperial Good]

Morale is also impossibly hard to level up to high amounts. Reaching 3 stars in morale is easy enough for warf/shipyard managers but I do not think I have anyone with 4 or 5 stars in morale.

A big issue is that there are not enough activities one can do to level up staff. For example the only way to gain experience with boarding is by boarding ships and the only way to gain decent experience boarding is by boarding hard targets which mean significant losses. Although boarding is used when claiming ships when deciding to retain equipment, that action does not level up boarding. Ordering ships to patrol will not improve skills at all despite the captains and crew ranking up huge numbers of flight hours.

When actions do generate experience they might not generate enough to be practical either due to limits or falloff. For example ships not selling stuff for greater than 50% between average and maximum price or buying stuff for less than 50% between minimum price and average price will gain experience very slowly. Most trades from auto miners and station subordinates will fall into the average range. Worse still, if the deal is the opposite end of the price ranges then the captain will lose morale.

As such to level up crew currently one must spend a huge amount of effort constructing specific working conditions which optimize number of high end experience gain types as well as the fraction for such gains. Even then it takes many hours and often a lot of manual effort. This is not very healthy from a gameplay perspective.

One would ideally want to assign a rookie to a station as a trade subordinate. Then after a few hours (3 or 5) he is skilled enough to be made an auto trader then after 12 or 18 hours he starts to max out skill.

[Nort The Fragrent]

I now do not hire any staff, I go to one of my own stations and pick up one of my employees. Put them into my ship as captain, then push them out of the chair, and take them to the new station. Re assign them to station Manager. This stops hire charges ! Then make sure the station has way more cash than it needs, and the new manager’s moral shoots up, and then the manager star rating also shoots up. Keep them happy with cash, and the station starts pumping.

One thing I think could be changed is the manager ought to sort out what freighters the station needs. Then finds the best for its needs and sends a request to me the owner to approve the purchase of the ships for the station.
Then down the track, if a station ship gets lost, the manger steps in and requests a replacement.
These station related requests need to be in a seperate list. So we don't have to trawl through all the irrelevant garbage ..