Capital Ships Booster Engines

[Anubitus]

Hey,

Please remove the boost engines for capital ships, it isnt much use and it drains the shields making them fly around with drained shields all the time.

[Sanshy]

Please remove booster association with shield and put it back like X3.

[photomankc]

Please stop suggesting what we all "don't need".

Just fix the AI using boost like fighters in capitals. I find boost quite useful in a tussle if I need to get away from heavy missiles or want to get moving at max speed in the other direction quickly. In X3 it was tied to ecells first and shields after by default? Capitals don't use ecells or weapon energy now, so I guess I don't follow on that angle.

[Derp]

I've noticed drones have a boost drive, despite lacking shields. I would like one of those please. It doesn't even need a gui element, I'd be happy if it just went "bleurgh" when it was out of juice.

[Karmaticdamage]

I don't mind that capital's have boosters at all, sometimes its even helpful. I'd just rather the npcs don't use it at all. My aux ships and carriers keep blowing all their shields up on boosting every time a single SCA fighters comes and demands it release its cargo. Why are SCA pea shooter equipped solo fighters attempting to pirate a mobile base with a support fleet floating around it anyway?

[Imperial Good]

Why are SCA pea shooter equipped solo fighters attempting to pirate a mobile base with a support fleet floating around it anyway?

Because they really need that load of worthless Energy Cells, or that 1 Medical Supply. Just because it is in the hold of the death star does not matter... Well worth sacrificing a multi hundred thousand credit ship over!.

I agree that capital boosts need to be removed. With their current implementation they are worthless as depleting your entire shield might move you 1km further and certainly will not be escaping any S or M ship which just has to lightly tap boost to go 3km+ with as good as no shield depletion. If they want to keep them then depleting your shields in an L or XL ship should move you closer to 10km or even 30km.

[mr.WHO]

I think the best solution would be to make separate energy bar / capacitors for boosters.
No shield drain and another stat to make ships less copy/pasta (e.g. som eships have better boosters than another).

[adeine]

I think the best solution would be to make separate energy bar / capacitors for boosters.
No shield drain and another stat to make ships less copy/pasta (e.g. som eships have better boosters than another).

A compromise could be to reimplement a ship reactor with a fixed power output and power limit stat a la X3, and have weapons fire, shield regeneration and boost energy taken from the shared energy pool. Basically the approach the Freespace games took, except without the manual control of balancing power between different systems (perhaps asking for too much).

It'd definitely help give ships more unique personalities and make loadout choices more relevant.

[Falcrack]

I think the best solution would be to make separate energy bar / capacitors for boosters.
No shield drain and another stat to make ships less copy/pasta (e.g. som eships have better boosters than another).

I would love this. This way, we could keep the AI boosting logic without crippling them because they boost their shields away.

[Anubitus]

I think the best solution would be to make separate energy bar / capacitors for boosters.
No shield drain and another stat to make ships less copy/pasta (e.g. som eships have better boosters than another).

A compromise could be to reimplement a ship reactor with a fixed power output and power limit stat a la X3, and have weapons fire, shield regeneration and boost energy taken from the shared energy pool. Basically the approach the Freespace games took, except without the manual control of balancing power between different systems (perhaps asking for too much).

It'd definitely help give ships more unique personalities and make loadout choices more relevant.

This would be wonderful, but it might take too much work to be implemented, thats why i was opting for just the removal for the boost from cap ships.

[Ezarkal]

I've noticed drones have a boost drive, despite lacking shields. I would like one of those please. It doesn't even need a gui element, I'd be happy if it just went "bleurgh" when it was out of juice.

Your very own spacesuit has boosters, too!

I'm very much with Adeine.
Have everything cost energy, add an energy input and energy storage. Energy storage is pretty simple to handle. Just add a new item slot called capacitors, and create a new stat for the ship.
Energy input could be a separate generator, or directly the ship's engines, which are already in place. So once again, you only have to add a stat.

(The "only have to" is just to point out that the general concept is simple. It has no regard to the process of implementing it. It must be a b*tchload of work to implement, balance, proof-test, release, etc.)


However, none of this change the issue of having ships boosting out without reasons at the beginning of the engagement. Having them drain their shields or having them drain their energy reserve ends up in the same result of your ship not being able to fight effectively and loosing the engagement.

[mr.WHO]

I don't know why (with the general AI stupidity) they didn't went with separate booster energy - that is most simple and sure to work solution - I love how AI fighters use boosters in X4, but I hate that they absolutely do not consider shield reserve.
Even for player this is absurd - you need to use boost in combat, but in the same time you need shields that probably are already under fire.
Logically speaking, combat wise draining shields for booster as absurd on many levels.

[Imperial Good]

Even for player this is absurd - you need to use boost in combat, but in the same time you need shields that probably are already under fire.
Logically speaking, combat wise draining shields for booster as absurd on many levels.

Late game combat this is not an issue. In an M ship a tap of boost will get you several km with barely any shield depletion, so little that it will regenerate within a few seconds. S ships are another matter however they also have extremely economical boost where again a single tap will get you several km with only 1 hit worth of shield depletion or less. The only problem with it depleting shield power is that you cannot use it to escape if you really do mess up, but I guess that was intended. Of course this is with exceptional engine mods, chassis mod and using Paranid Combat Mk3 which is the best for dog fighting due to its higher flight speed and better boost.

I use boost all the time in fights, be it to escape when shields are starting to get hit hard or just to reposition to land more hits. The exception is when I am flying L and XL ships, since the reason for this topic kind of explains it all.

[Techedge]

I love how AI fighters use boosters in X4, but I hate that they absolutely do not consider shield reserve.
Even for player this is absurd - you need to use boost in combat, but in the same time you need shields that probably are already under fire.

That's the very core of the problem: we as human players can choose when and if to boost, loosing shield. A most enjoyable feature, imho, if only AI could do the same. Using separate booster energy would (almost) solve the gap with AI while negating a useful strategical combat resource. I would prefer to maintain it as is while trying instead to correct AI behavior.

[LameFox]

That's the very core of the problem: we as human players can choose when and if to boost, loosing shield. A most enjoyable feature, imho, if only AI could do the same. Using separate booster energy would (almost) solve the gap with AI while negating a useful strategical combat resource. I would prefer to maintain it as is while trying instead to correct AI behavior.

I think this would be very difficult to achieve. Essentially writing a set of rules to try to imitate the ability of a player to predict the fate of their ship for the next few seconds and decide if now is a good time to exchange some shields for speed. Meanwhile, in its current state the AI can't even do things like steering around objects properly, and has to be able to morph through them without taking damage in order to function. 'Almost' might be as close to fixing it as we can get.

[Techedge]

I think this would be very difficult to achieve. Essentially writing a set of rules to try to imitate the ability of a player to predict the fate of their ship for the next few seconds and decide if now is a good time to exchange some shields for speed. Meanwhile, in its current state the AI can't even do things like steering around objects properly, and has to be able to morph through them without taking damage in order to function. 'Almost' might be as close to fixing it as we can get.

Agreed in principle (pun intended).
I don't see it so utterly overcomplicated but I understand that, given the actual overall state of the game, 'almost' should suffice instead of this broken combat AI.
Hadn't been the game how it actually is, however...

[Sanshy]

Just gives us back the gun and boost mechanism of X3. It was making sense that the guns power was liked to the ship power reserve (MJ) and the booster was separated from shield.

Maybe less then 5 persons here are supportive of the current system and ALL THE OTHERS want it back like how it was in X3.

[Techedge]

I agree that in X3/AP (with extensions) booster/guns were waaaay better and balanced than in X:R/X4. However, in X3 it was just the player who could unfairly benefit from the booster, not the AI. Could it be one of the reason they tried to make it this way? Anyway, I don't think they will turn away from their decision.

For the records, I've always set booster to drain power from shield and not from guns. This is probably why I tolerate it in X4, but the mechanism as is, it's broken and this turns out in an unfair advantage for the player (again!).

[Anubitus]

All i want is for my AI captains to NOT boost away their shield power for a extremely small and short increase of speed that is not realy going to matter in the end. They fly around without shields wich makes them much more vulnerable then they should be. How this problem is solved is up to the devs to decide, i was just suggesting one of many solutions.