Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

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KingLetho
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Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by KingLetho » Fri, 11. Jan 19, 16:05

Hello developers, hello community,
I have enthusiastically (albeit infrequently) played X4 over last month and would like to share some thoughts, some praise, some criticism and some suggestions.

First of all, I'd like to begin this post by expressing my gratitude to the people at Egosoft (Bernd, CBJ, Lino and all the others!) who have done a remarkable job with X4 and the whole X-series in general.
With the vast amount of content, complexity and playthrough-options you have created a game that is played by many different types of players. It is obviously impossible to create the eierlegende Wollmilchsau that satisfies everyone but I will still comment on some of the aspects of the game that I like as well the aspects where I personally see room for improvement.


1. Exploration

1.1 Asteroid mining
I love it!
I was super surprised when I first discovered it and really enjoy doing it from time when exploring the universe.
Especially in the beginning of the game it's really nice. Not too sure why it has been criticized by many, I think the money per hour is in line with what the missions offer. So yeah, great addition, thanks for that! :)

1.2 Finding the unknown
From time to time, especially when waiting for a station construction to be finished I start to explore the universe a bit more.
Maybe I'm just a bad explorer but here is what I noticed so far:
- Asteroid mining is a great activity to do it between, I just have to say it again!
- Finding wreckage is cool and I like going through the airlocks with my space suit. It also took quite a while since I even figured out that this was possible - a nice addition to the "think" part of the game
- NPC ships out there? Tbh, encountering AI ships in the deepness of space with nothing of interest around feels wrong. Sometimes I try to follow ships hoping to find a station or whatever their target is to be out there but if ships just get teleported to me out there ... It feels bad. Please limit the teleport script to the sector core. Whenever I discover a ship in deep space it should have a purpose there.
- I love the treasure hunt for data vaults! It's a bit hard to find them without any hint where they are (and I certainly won't google it - where's the fun then?) but I love the general idea. The repair-minigame is also fun:)
- I also found some "old" stuff like some aqueducts or the sponge asteroid from X:R. At least for the latter I would have hoped that there was more to it than just it's existence (at least as far as I'm aware)
- Finding unclaimed ships is neat, I also loved that in the previous games:)
- In the 1.5 video Bernd said that the sectors would extend if you move farther out. While this is quite cool (a configurable per-sector zoom level would be nice) I have a hard time finding something of interest. Finding interesting spots to investigate based on visual indications is one thing but flying ages in a line just to hope that something pops up that is way out of view or scan ping range, well... Exploring is one thing but I wouldn't mind getting hints in some form (-> as in less "luck" and more "think"). Maybe in the form of a visual indication (Astro in background), a riddle, random com chatter, or a treasure map that can be found in a container or bought from NPCs. Space is vast and just randomly flying around nowhere hoping to find something gets dull quite fast.
- In some systems there are huge asteroids in the background. All the ones I have visited so far have been spectacularly uninteresting. In other games flying/looting through Asteroid holes and tubes was a great deal fun (i.e. Everspace) and I'd love the possibility for X4 too. Not in a space suit but since S-ships (as in S-ploration, lol) have a defined size to land on docks asteroid tubes could be designed around that. If there is something like that already in the game it brings me to my previous point.
In either case, it's all about rewards.


1.3 Rewards
Imagine going on an endeavor ... a journey to go where no man has gone before ... to discover the mysteries of space.
Now I'm out there and I've got lucky: Not only I've found a bunch of sealed containers floating in space but also a huge wreck.
I think the reward for random floating containers is good (give me good inventory stuff to craft!) but whenever I find something special, say that special ship wreck far out of a sector, collecting only inventory wares feels underwhelming. I doesn't feel rewarding, even if it's "good junk".
I'm still not sold on the whole limitation of paint jobs and EgoCredits but maybe anther approach here would be to make certain paint mods unique to certain locations. It's not impacting the game for those who don't explore but it will spark that pokemonanial "Gotta catch them all" feeling. Make me want to go out there, hunting.
Oh, and as I said before, treasure maps could be a thing for random floating containers allowing me to find special paint mod locations better. That would of course require to make paint mods infinite after they have been discovered once.

One more thing that just comes to mind:
It might not be something for X4 but if you ever start a successor ... In Metroid Prime it was possible get encyclopedia entries by entering scan mode (see the similarities? :)) and then scan a target. It was another thing I liked to do: Exploring the world in order to get my wiki to 100%. If scan mode would highlight things you have not scanned yet and add entry once you have either scanned or acquired a certain object (type) would add an other minor, albeit neat feature to the game that gives me another goal (and I kinda need those personally, despite playing a sandbox game).
That brings me to...


2. Mission content and feel of achievement

2.1 So many missions!
Once again I have to congratulate you! The variety of missions a player can accept is really awesome and offers a lot of different play. I'm lovin' it!

2.2 ...But so little incentive to try all of them
I'm sure you knew that this "but" was coming...
The problem is, for me, that albeit I'm a relatively slow player, I try to make economic decisions (duh!). Ultimately, this leads to the case that I will repeat certain missions quite often while never playing others. This is mostly due to the fact that I usually play missions that give a maximal amount of money for the lowest perceived effort and time.
Back in X3 the campaigns "forced" me to dive into different aspects of the game and ultimately that was a good thing that brought a lot of variety in my ordinary space life. I hope that it doesn't sound to contradictory and that at least some of you can understand but sometimes I need a game to force me to have fun xD
I have a hard time finding the rights words to express it correctly but - bluntly spoken - I wish for some incentive to try out all the different missions. Be it in the form of achievements (yes, I'm that type of guy, please forgive me) or certain paint mods that are only offered once per mission type (or once per 5 mission types, whatever). Nothing mandatory to progress in the game (everyone should play the game he/she wants and not be forced to do certain types of mission) but a tiny tiny extrinsic motivation to try out all the game's content would be awesome. My inner Schweinehund is just to big...

2.3 War missions:
I understand it's a small line: Satisfying the war mongers and the peaceful traders alike.
Maybe you call it a typical weakness of most modern games but sometimes I'm just looking for instant action. The war missions are a not bad but sometimes i'm just looking for some immediate action. I know that it was a goal to get rid of random ship spawns but personally speaking I'd love to see them back, at least to a degree. Explain that Khaak ship can jump in anywhere and then offer missions on stations that just make them appear when I feel like fighting. ...I'm allowed to dream, am I not?

Balance-wise, I think that the the basic ratio of DPS vs ship health is very well designed. The battles last the "right" amount of time and are usually quite fun.
The only thing missing that real "whoa, awesome" feeling created by huge capitals shooting slow-flying, big, and glow-y projectiles as demonstrate in this video: https://youtu.be/cXNiIrUtlKY


2.4 BBS (sorry CBJ, I can't quite let go)
I'm aware that this topic has been discussed to death and that CBJ already explained that BBS is not going to happen.
While I fully understand his reasoning I just have this dream to see something like this in the future. ...I just have to get this off my chest:

In a dreamed universe I'd love to see some form of news paper the player can interact with.
My dream: Whenever I enter a sector, I can open a local instance of the "Galaxy News" newspaper, containing:

- Generic missions:
The currently available missions, but instead of in an ugly list newspaper style! A short summary, mission type, reward, and start of the description, trucated to the avilable space. When I click on the article, the full mission briefing comes up.

- Generic mission outcome:
If I did something of impact it could be listed.

- Secrets:
„Hey, this is Mahi Ma and my ship detected weird sensor readings coming somewhere from the Asteroid Field near the Helios station. I have to continue my Journey but someone should defintely check that out“

- Story:
If X is containing story again, we could show relevant here:
Tips that help progress the current quest
Outcome of actions the player did (breaking news style)

- Ads:
"Buy the new Argon Nova" now for only 13.352C in your shipyard in Argon Prime. The Argon nova is a vessel that..."
-> This gives information to the player, about lucrative opportunities. Second part of the text could be the wiki entry so you learn ship lore.
Random ads (images) like the ones found on space stations.
Advertisements, for ships, products and factions

- Lore:
X4 is lacking lore, and I think the news paper could be cheap (as in no audio required) to fill that gap. Learn more about the holy trinity, Teladi greed, factions in general, events in the X-universe etc. etc.

- Live events:
Stuff like: A station in the system was attacked or has been destroyed, a battle that took place, (player) property that was lost, new stations that have been constructed, wares that are overflowing are desperately needed, a thread that could be averted, pirates raiding party, bounty letters, wanted pirate gets killed, xenon outbreak in sector, prices drop/rise somewhere, rare weapons in stock, etc.,

- Special offers:
Like ships, weapons etc that is on sale somewhere. Or a specific NPC to contact for deals. Offers to buy player property.

- Universe news:
Such as new sectors discovered, capital ships destroyed, feuds between factions, invasions/incursions/warnings when pirates are in sectors etc.
Special events that are going to take a place at a certain time: I.e. Argon invasion in 23. minutes at sector X. Get 500.000C if you join in. etc. 

- Lottery!

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KingLetho
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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by KingLetho » Fri, 11. Jan 19, 16:06

3 Progression

3.1 Early game
Here I am, a somewhat experienced player that played X:R, X3TC and X:Rebirth standing in a hangar with a ship next to me.
Not knowing where to start, I began to wander around on the station, aimlessly, talking to NPCs not knowing what I'm doing, finally getting lost and forced to take a long walk back to what I expected to be my ship. Then I took off, instead of walking I was now flying around aimlessly, ultimately docking on some random station in the system, glitching right through the landing platform. Eventually I gave up, started playing tutorials which were neither pretty nor bug-free, only to discover that I still had no idea where to start. Knowing that I was playing an X game I knew that the first two hours are tough and that the fun needs to be discovered first.
Still, that's not how a game should be.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy figuring out how certain aspects of a game work, it feels rewarding figuring certain things out.
Being forced to do some boring tutorial missions is one of the worst things a game can do but...
The first two hours were simply no fun. At all. I can't speak for others but I could imagine that this is pretty off-putting for players new to the genre.
I would have enjoyed an optional tutorial here: For example some relative making radio contact, asking me to, say, make a simple trade run and a small combat mission to learn the basics of the game. All optional of course. It wouldn't need to have the same extend than Rebirth but some guidance just to get started would have been really nice. And I think that many new to the genre of a game heavy as this feel the same. Some simple guidance and maybe a simple goal to strive for the first hours, that's what I was looking for. I believe that making the first two hours more fun will result in a lot more positive reviews...

Eventually (after googling how to interact with "those sparkly things") the HQ mission triggered and every-thing was fine.
I got into the game, and finally it became fun. "I just love the X-Games", is what I was repeatedly saying from that point on.

3.2 Mid game
The sandbox side of the game is pretty good.
Gameplay is solid and fun. There a few rough edges and some QoL features that would turn it from good to awesome but nothing really to complain from my side.
If I had one thing to add it would be a greater number of tooltips that possibly only become available after you have a certain amount of play time. Many possibilities I only learned after I visited the forum: What space suit EMPs are for (and how to steal station plans), how ventures work, what the stars of pilots mean, what workforce is for, what the different module colors in scan mode mean etc. It's great to figure some stuff out by ourselves but some things could be explained. Maybe even the community could collect useful tooltips and hand them to you if you think that's worth it?

One other point I'd like to mention is the HQ research. I think it's good that the first teleport stage, the first blueprints and the first modifications are available early and fast.
Still, clicking on a button and wait 10 minutes is just too simple for an X game. For the simple ones I would suggest to make the player to deliver a few widely available resources. For the later stages, increase the cost: Deliver rare inventory wares, or tons of certain goods. Make the later researches feel rewarding and (especially stuff like 3-sector teleport) damn f***ing expensive. Then add a real tada, a nice sound effect and maybe some congratulation pop-up once you finish it. That's at least how I would dream it :>

3.3 End game
I understand that the real endgame is something only few players will ever reach (compared to the overall buyers not people here in the forum^^) and that not too many resources should be "wasted" on it.
And I have to admit that I'm also not really there yet, so take everything I say now with care. But from what I have learned the options are limited: I can wage war against any of the factions and even take their sectors (which is super awesome, I can not emphasize enough how great that new feature is. So thank you 10.000 times! I think it should be said more often!) but ultimately there is very little reason to do so other than for the sake of war. It hurts my trading eco system to some degree, I can no longer buy wares I later may want to have access to and I simply gain nothing.
I want my military ships to be put to use. I want my stations to be guarded for a reason. But I will not engage a war just for the sake of it.
I am very much hoping that you will bring a DLC that offers some kind of endgame mission content.
To not hurt the people that want peace in their universe it could be an optional event chain about a massive Khaak (or whatever foe or race) invasion. By giving the player the possibility to prepare and trigger it willingly I believe a lot of people could be made happy.
Ok, I am sure that you already have pretty fixed plans for the DLCs and that my text won't change a dime but hey, better try than not, right?

Speaking of end-endgame... I know it's a sandbox where you need to set your own goals. But as you have figured out by now, personally I also like if the game gives me some motivation to strive for specific goals. I mean, I finished the HUB-plot in an unmodified vanilla game without using cheats or exploits - in my mind it was one of the best endgame plots ever: The first achievement could be reached relatively fast: The connection or the first to gates. But to get all of them going, boy, that was work! I would really dig if you could bring something like that in a DLC again (it doesn't have to be _that_ extreme though xD). Maybe some super expensive research item...?

3.4 Pace of growth
It seems you wanted to make many of the possibilities the game offers available early.
While I enjoyed the slow progression in the games of old, I also don't mind the new approach. I never had a station that early in the game and it doesn't feel necessarily bad.
I'm missing the feeling when I was finally able to upgrade my ****** guns to the next better ones and god was I happy when the first pilot bailed in X3 but X4 is the first game of the series where I don't reload a two day old save just because I noticed the loss of a fighter later.
What I'm not sure about is the cost of selling captured ships (too little imho, I'd like to see a higher base price being paid additionally, independent from the hull status).
I would also like to see an impact of my current rank on payment. It doesn't have to be as extreme as in X3 but in the beginning mission rewards feel a little too much and towards the end a little too less.


4. GUI

4.1 Modes (Regular/Scan/LR/Seta)
I just want to state that I really like how the modes, how they work, and how they are visualized.

4.2 Structure
I have to say that I was impressed how intuitive the GUI is. You managed to add a ton of different commands in way that it still doesn't take too long to find them. Everything is roughly where you'd expect it and with a bit trial and error you manage to find your way quickly. Once I figured out how to disable most map info the minimap quickly became super awesome. Playing the old X games now feels super clunky.

4.3 Design
The menus are logical and useful. But for my taste, their design is mediocre in many aspects.
I'm not a good designer by myself and understand that it's a difficult thing to do but I see room to improve the overall feel of the game.
If you take a look at some of the better strategy games you will notice that they are able to transport a lot of useful information to the player without needing too much screen space.
A good GUI for this game should to give off as much information as possible whilst intruding on the gameplay area as little as possible. Most elements of the GUI are translucent, so that they do not distract the eye from the gameplay area, and most elements should be retractable so the player can remove them if they feel they are unnecessary.
X4 does that to some degree and I like that you can expand object info in the map view.
But I think that the ship info screen just could look a lot better.
Especially I think that a lot more stuff could be icon-ized to see more while needing less text space.
I created some bad looking mock-up in PowerPoint to give an idea on what could be done:
Image

...Maybe sth. for X5? ;)


4.4 Loadout and Station Design Editor
I love the new customization possibilities for ships!
The station editor is also really neat (and a great improvement compared to X3!) but can be quite fiddly at times. If I am to make a suggestion, a 3-axis cursor known from modeling programs would be super helpful as seen in this image: https://koenig-media.raywenderlich.com/ ... lators.png


5 Paint jobs
Back in X3 it was a lot of fun to capture pirate ships in order to have ships with those fancy paint works.
I also enjoy paintmods in X4 but I think that the idea with consumable paint jobs goes into the wrong direction.
Especially EgoCredits don't fit to this type of game and I think that more but smaller DLCs are a better way to make money than the upcoming microtransactions.
As I have said before, I think it's better to break free the hunter-gatherer in us and make us chase specific paint jobs - that, once unlocked, are permanently and unlimited available.
Imho, it would be an awesome exploration goal as I've said already in section 1) of this post.


6 Walking on stations
There has been some ranting about this in the forum so I just wanted to say that I enjoy it a lot and that being able to leave the ship and being capable to watch ships land and take off is super awesome from an ego perspective. The view from the bar is also awesome:)

[hr]

I'm one of those forum lurkers who often look but barely write anything. Now that I do it became a huge wall of text - I hope it's not too off-putting^^
I expect that most of what I have said will be ignored, I just wrote it hoping to ignite the one or other spark.

TL;DR: Enjoy the game. Spread some love.

Warnoise
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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by Warnoise » Fri, 11. Jan 19, 16:56

tl;dr but damn egosoft is lucky having such community full of people willing to write an essay full of sugarcoating

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KingLetho
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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by KingLetho » Wed, 16. Jan 19, 17:04

I was hoping for a slightly more, say, encouraging answer but well... :shrug:

Anyway, I hope you can help me, as I plan to recreate the menus as described above.
I might be able to shave off a weekend or two to get into X modding next month hoping to achieve sth. like on the picture. I believe I read somewhere that the menus are built in lua?
That's great news because I found those relatively easy to create, at least in SupCom and SWBF2. I'm just wondering, is the menu run in a separate process, so that it stays responsive even if the game stutters? If so, do we have documentation on how to pass data between sim and GUI?

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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by Hewwy » Wed, 16. Jan 19, 18:35

I actually see a well written in depth view on the game that is both highlighting the goodpoints and yet giving criticism where its due in a positive way because of the solutions offered. I agree with many of the points, most of them infact, i too really enjoy mining,
Spoiler
Show
especially when i found burnite the first time omg wow.
Something about just chilling out in asteroid fields looking for valuable resources appeals to me whether you are mining the crystals or the asteroids themself or both.

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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by birdtable » Wed, 16. Jan 19, 18:42

Well I have just had a mighty HOP v PAR battle outside the Allied Warf,, even HOP fighters guns blazing coming into the dock area attacking a PAR freighter, had to quickly despatch my main travel ship while I took control of my personal tradeship…. PAR did not come out well.
So compliments all round for X4.

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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by Chebz » Wed, 16. Jan 19, 19:50

Warnoise wrote:
Fri, 11. Jan 19, 16:56
tl;dr but damn egosoft is lucky having such community full of people willing to write an essay full of sugarcoating
hah no kidding

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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by solarie99 » Wed, 16. Jan 19, 22:30

agree with most here, but damn that newspaper idea that would have been sooo cool.
land on a station, go over to the local cafeteria and u can seat urself down have a sip and read newspaper.
+10 on that one. :D
Trading stations shuld have cafeterias as they are like "mall's" after all.

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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by Eggy_SE1 » Wed, 16. Jan 19, 22:48

Nice post makes a pleasant change from a lot that I read.

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KingLetho
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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by KingLetho » Tue, 22. Jan 19, 14:28

Thanks guys :)

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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by battlemode » Tue, 22. Jan 19, 15:29

Now this is what you called REAL criticism, not the usual, entitled salty crap that passes on forums these days.

Great post, hopefully someone at Egosoft sees this and realises there are some people enjoying this as we are, whilst understanding there is work to do to make it right.

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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by ApoxNM » Tue, 22. Jan 19, 16:31

battlemode wrote:
Tue, 22. Jan 19, 15:29
Now this is what you called REAL criticism, not the usual, entitled salty crap that passes on forums these days.

Great post, hopefully someone at Egosoft sees this and realises there are some people enjoying this as we are, whilst understanding there is work to do to make it right.
Nope, real critisicm is constructive critisicm, whether it's sugercoated or not doesn't matter, as long as it depicts it's faults.
Even the rant and whine threads have a lot of constructive criticism in them.

You always have to look at it objectively. What needs criticizing are not the good parts, but the bad parts, hence all negative threads often seem as whiney or pure rants, but are more often actually usefull in term of finding what needs most focus.

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by Socratatus » Tue, 22. Jan 19, 20:14

ApoxNM wrote:
Tue, 22. Jan 19, 16:31
battlemode wrote:
Tue, 22. Jan 19, 15:29
Now this is what you called REAL criticism, not the usual, entitled salty crap that passes on forums these days.

Great post, hopefully someone at Egosoft sees this and realises there are some people enjoying this as we are, whilst understanding there is work to do to make it right.
Nope, real critisicm is constructive critisicm, whether it's sugercoated or not doesn't matter, as long as it depicts it's faults.
Even the rant and whine threads have a lot of constructive criticism in them.

You always have to look at it objectively. What needs criticizing are not the good parts, but the bad parts, hence all negative threads often seem as whiney or pure rants, but are more often actually usefull in term of finding what needs most focus.

Just my 2 cents.
Well said. Not everyone can speak eloquently like shakespeare when making valid contructive whines. Even a rant can hold some gems.
"If you`re looking for that one person who can change your life, take a look in the mirror."
"No problem can withstand the assault of sustained thinking."
"Don`t raise your voice. improve your argument."
"Some men are morally opposed to violence. They are protected by men who are not."

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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by Graaf » Wed, 23. Jan 19, 10:09

KingLetho wrote:
Fri, 11. Jan 19, 16:06
TL;DR: Enjoy the game. Spread some love.
TLDR: But I do not enjoy the game and have reverted again to the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" that is X3:TC/AP. Its not that they are impossible to create it, its that they can't re-create it. X4 is just what I feared, only Rebirth 2, and from what I hear from those who like Rebirth, even bad at that.

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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by consiefe » Wed, 23. Jan 19, 12:00

ApoxNM wrote:
Tue, 22. Jan 19, 16:31
battlemode wrote:
Tue, 22. Jan 19, 15:29
Now this is what you called REAL criticism, not the usual, entitled salty crap that passes on forums these days.

Great post, hopefully someone at Egosoft sees this and realises there are some people enjoying this as we are, whilst understanding there is work to do to make it right.
Nope, real critisicm is constructive critisicm, whether it's sugercoated or not doesn't matter, as long as it depicts it's faults.
Even the rant and whine threads have a lot of constructive criticism in them.

You always have to look at it objectively. What needs criticizing are not the good parts, but the bad parts, hence all negative threads often seem as whiney or pure rants, but are more often actually usefull in term of finding what needs most focus.

Just my 2 cents.
Absolutely agree. Holding praises dear is a kind thing but in a project sense criticisms are invaluable. Ofcourse we praise some of the parts as it is but there are much more urgent things to say about wrongs in these relatively early days of release. Having dedicated player base who expresses the wrongs and wants the game to do better is a good thing actually. And believe me when and if it's done, we'll gladly praise it with an enthusiasm.

ApoxNM
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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by ApoxNM » Wed, 23. Jan 19, 12:46

consiefe wrote:
Wed, 23. Jan 19, 12:00
ApoxNM wrote:
Tue, 22. Jan 19, 16:31
battlemode wrote:
Tue, 22. Jan 19, 15:29
Now this is what you called REAL criticism, not the usual, entitled salty crap that passes on forums these days.

Great post, hopefully someone at Egosoft sees this and realises there are some people enjoying this as we are, whilst understanding there is work to do to make it right.
Nope, real critisicm is constructive critisicm, whether it's sugercoated or not doesn't matter, as long as it depicts it's faults.
Even the rant and whine threads have a lot of constructive criticism in them.

You always have to look at it objectively. What needs criticizing are not the good parts, but the bad parts, hence all negative threads often seem as whiney or pure rants, but are more often actually usefull in term of finding what needs most focus.

Just my 2 cents.
Absolutely agree. Holding praises dear is a kind thing but in a project sense criticisms are invaluable. Ofcourse we praise some of the parts as it is but there are much more urgent things to say about wrongs in these relatively early days of release. Having dedicated player base who expresses the wrongs and wants the game to do better is a good thing actually. And believe me when and if it's done, we'll gladly praise it with an enthusiasm.
Exactly.

I whine and complain, because I like the game very much and want it to be the best it can be, because if they really fix it up well, this is a title I see myself playing for years.

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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by Bubonosaure » Wed, 23. Jan 19, 14:08

Socratatus wrote:
Tue, 22. Jan 19, 20:14
ApoxNM wrote:
Tue, 22. Jan 19, 16:31
battlemode wrote:
Tue, 22. Jan 19, 15:29
Now this is what you called REAL criticism, not the usual, entitled salty crap that passes on forums these days.

Great post, hopefully someone at Egosoft sees this and realises there are some people enjoying this as we are, whilst understanding there is work to do to make it right.
Nope, real critisicm is constructive critisicm, whether it's sugercoated or not doesn't matter, as long as it depicts it's faults.
Even the rant and whine threads have a lot of constructive criticism in them.

You always have to look at it objectively. What needs criticizing are not the good parts, but the bad parts, hence all negative threads often seem as whiney or pure rants, but are more often actually usefull in term of finding what needs most focus.

Just my 2 cents.
Well said. Not everyone can speak eloquently like shakespeare when making valid contructive whines. Even a rant can hold some gems.
I love rants when you mix up some humor in it. It shows that you're aware of the exaggerated nature of your critic while still conveying the unbearable feeling of watching an M corvette hoover the landing pad for 10 straight minutes.

Also, OP makes some interesting point but they've been debated over and over. At this point, we're held hostage by the patch cycle and our love for space sim and the X universe. Thoughts and prayers™. :roll:

Techedge
Posts: 150
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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by Techedge » Wed, 23. Jan 19, 21:47

Graaf wrote:
Wed, 23. Jan 19, 10:09
KingLetho wrote:
Fri, 11. Jan 19, 16:06
TL;DR: Enjoy the game. Spread some love.
TLDR: But I do not enjoy the game and have reverted again to the "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" that is X3:TC/AP. Its not that they are impossible to create it, its that they can't re-create it. X4 is just what I feared, only Rebirth 2, and from what I hear from those who like Rebirth, even bad at that.
I've played all the previous X games and I'm really enjoying X4 (I've hated Rebirth). In my opinion X4 is far more "X3-ish" than it appears to be (and than most of its detractors think).

As the OP says, it still needs LOT of work, content and polishing, but I have to give Ego credit (pun intended :twisted: ) for their work until now. I feel safe to say it will became one of the most appreciated X game (at least I hope, as I've bought the CE, without any regret until now :roll: ).

Edit: I forgot to add, one of the major feature I would like to see in the near future is 3-axis map movement, as it is almost impossible to use the third dimension right now (and it is almost useless, as in any other X game everything is located at the ecliptic :mrgreen:) .

Graaf
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Joined: Fri, 9. Jan 04, 16:36
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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by Graaf » Thu, 24. Jan 19, 11:51

Techedge wrote:
Wed, 23. Jan 19, 21:47
I've played all the previous X games and I'm really enjoying X4 (I've hated Rebirth). In my opinion X4 is far more "X3-ish" than it appears to be (and than most of its detractors think).
It may be more X3-ish then Rebirth was, but that is all. It is not the real successor to X3 that they told us it would be, its just a continuation of the bad idea that is Rebirth.

I've played X2, X3 and now this game with the title X4, but I'm sorry, it doesn't feel in any way as a successor or continuation of X3.

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KingLetho
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Re: Compliments and feedback towards CBJ, Egosoft and X4

Post by KingLetho » Thu, 24. Jan 19, 13:28

To follow this meta-debate on how to deliver criticism, I fully consider the game to be an amazing achievement for such a small company.
It was built basically from scratch; not only was it built on top of an engine but in fact a whole new engine has been created. That is a huge milestone that lays the ground work for tremendous expansion opportunities later. At one point you just have to release a game. Of course it can always be better, but eventually you'll need to make money with what you have and can't continue forever as you will run out of funding rather sooner than later.

With the initial post I made I purposely tried to mention things that I enjoy about the game. Because I believe that it needs to be said, and that I'm hoping to to contribute towards are more friendly atmosphere.
The main idea of the initial post is to give relatively concrete solutions/ideas to the aspects the game I feel need improvement the most.
That goes especially towards the whole "feel of achievement", "goals", and "collecting mania" which I was hoping to get some thoughts about.

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