The economy is a total disaster!

[Doc_Orange]

I need for a new adminstration center Claytronics. The automated builder found no claytronics so I searched manually. The idea was to transport manually. I found in the whole galaxy 28 Claytronics. So I think its a good idea to build a claytronics factory but guess what - I cannot build it because of missing claytronics.

This is a disaster! I never played a game with so many gamebreaking bugs.

The only possibility to survive are cheats - thats a pity.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

If there is a factory selling claytronics then you can still get them... it may take a bit longer. You can help yourself by feeding the Claytronics factory with required resources and buying the claytronics as soon as they are produced. Patience has always been required with the X-Series... Trade-Fight-Build-Think has long been the motto of the X-games.

At least the god engine is not likely to wipe out that last NPC source of Claytronics - given that, it is hardly a total disaster (just the normal to be expected X-game in that regard).

[malkuth1974]

Maybe I’m miss understanding you, but you don’t start with any modules. You have to buy them or scan them.

Buying is straight forward. Scanning is luck based.

Do you know what claytronics are used for? We just can’t call everything a bug.

[abisha1980]

I tought this at first but later a understand a optimized eco system would means you the player can't make credits
so be happy the economy ingame is broken it means more cash for you.

in my game the shipyards have serious hard time getting engine parts guess what i deliver? on large trade vessels.

[ApoxNM]

I tought this at first but later a understand a optimized eco system would means you the player can't make credits
so be happy the economy ingame is broken it means more cash for you.

in my game the shipyards have serious hard time getting engine parts guess what i deliver? on large trade vessels.

Yea, but that truelly is a bug, because the conomy should function without the player aswell. This game has to cater to different playstyles, that's the whole selling point.
Right now the only way to have a functioning game is by micro managing the wharf / shipyard economy. Which is not the point of the game.

Therefore the economy is very much unbalanced, not broken, but still needs fixing.

[Invasion]

You should be happy that more than just the economy is broken

[ApoxNM]

You should be happy that more than just the economy is broken

?

What?

We should be happy that more than the economy is broken? Why the f. would we be happy about that?

[Socratatus]

The only possibility to survive are cheats - thats a pity.

I`ve seen quite a few games with this many bugs- even more. It`s why I stopped playing games until I decided to have a rest and took X4...

I see things haven`t changed. I notice too, that even with my research, marketing makes sure you don`t see the bad stuff until release. I knew it would be buggy, just not this unready. It needs at least 6 more months.

I like the game, but i also like cars too, doesn`t mean I like it if one wheel wobbles while I drive.

p.s Oh and I don`t need to use any cheats at all. Sounds like you`re just making excuses to use cheats, i`ve just realised.

[slategrey252]

Its not a "total" Disaster

Its far from being perfect.

But (for me) it's not a total disaster

Im having fun and making credits.

[abisha1980]

I tought this at first but later a understand a optimized eco system would means you the player can't make credits
so be happy the economy ingame is broken it means more cash for you.

in my game the shipyards have serious hard time getting engine parts guess what i deliver? on large trade vessels.

Yea, but that truelly is a bug, because the conomy should function without the player aswell. This game has to cater to different playstyles, that's the whole selling point.
Right now the only way to have a functioning game is by micro managing the wharf / shipyard economy. Which is not the point of the game.

Therefore the economy is very much unbalanced, not broken, but still needs fixing.

I don't agree it's a bug, the market ingame only buy in small quantity's meaning you really need to get leverage by selling high demanding items, without it you can't make a freaking dim with trading.
so yea the eco system should not work proper without the player.
in the old X3 you can make a energy transporter with can store up to 22.000 energy cells and buy for 6 credits and sell it for 23 credits making profit and being worthwhile in this game all stations only buy small amounts making it pointless to even bother trading.

[ApoxNM]

I tought this at first but later a understand a optimized eco system would means you the player can't make credits
so be happy the economy ingame is broken it means more cash for you.

in my game the shipyards have serious hard time getting engine parts guess what i deliver? on large trade vessels.

Yea, but that truelly is a bug, because the conomy should function without the player aswell. This game has to cater to different playstyles, that's the whole selling point.
Right now the only way to have a functioning game is by micro managing the wharf / shipyard economy. Which is not the point of the game.

Therefore the economy is very much unbalanced, not broken, but still needs fixing.

I don't agree it's a bug, the market ingame only buy in small quantity's meaning you really need to get leverage by selling high demanding items, without it you can't make a freaking dim with trading.
so yea the eco system should not work proper without the player.

And I don't agree with you. Auto traders and AI traders are just pure shit in vanilla game. The economy is very much still not working but not because of the economic mechanics, but because of the stupid AI and the trade scripts.
As for the price calculations, I think the implementation could have been a lot better. Seems broken to me sometimes, because of how they are calculated.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

No Claytronics (or whatever) for sale does not equal broken economy.

The simplest explanation for something being unavailable would be that there is larger demand than production.

In previous games the player has been able to snipe new production of rare wares out from under noses of the competition. In X2/X3 by getting their ship to the producer first; in XR by uncovering a modules build cycle and grabbing the Trade Offer ASAP after something leaves the production line.

Is it possible to grab new Trade Offers before NPCs in X4 like it is in XR?

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Is it possible to grab new Trade Offers before NPCs in X4 like it is in XR?

I think so, once a trade offer has been advertised and you have arranged the exchange that stock is reserved for you. Unlike with X3 and prior, there is no gazumping trade mechanics AFAIK, you just have to get in there first.

[CaptainRAVE]

It needs tweaking, but on the whole it works well.

[Dygaza]

Looks like each universe have different problems. Quess this is why they said that each universe will look different. In my universe there's too much claytronics around, but smart chips were in sparse (was a good business opportunity).

[Doc_Orange]

A few times in the answers was the question "is is really broken?".

What I mean with broken is, that the economy don't produces a very important part and I'm not able to produce it for myself because I need exactly this part to build my production for the missing part.

What I mean with broken is that I have to wait for about 30 ingame hours to produce destroyers because the shipyard does not produce anymore. And yes, the shipyard has enough resources. I checked it more than once, I even hacked it and refilles.

What I mean with broken is that I have to use more time to fight bugs than to enjoy the game. Ok, lets a add the stupid KI to this point.

What I mean with broken is, that I'm not a long term X-player. I used to play "normal" games with a relativly low amount of bugs.

Yes, I call it broken but thats a pure individual opinion.

[dholmstr]

What is a "normal" game? Do not be offended, I just really want to know what is a "normal" game in this age.

[Gregorovitch]

What I mean with broken is, that the economy don't produces a very important part and I'm not able to produce it for myself because I need exactly this part to build my production for the missing part.

So long as there is at least one Claytronics factory in existence your game is far from broken. You can fix it. If you have a problem with claytronics it basically your "fault". I do not mean this harshly. I am also dealing with shortage issues that frustrate my plans, but my problems are different to your problems, my universe appears to be different to yours. Like you I was not expecting it (I don't recall things working out like this in X3) and I am having to scratch my head and take seriously the question of what to do about it.

It seems to me that Egosoft may have deliberately put these "problems" or "imbalances" into the economy firstly to create major differences between playthroughs (what works in one game may not work so well in another 'cos different shortages occur etc maybe) and secondly to make the player a more central figure in how thew game plays out.

For example if the universe is crawling with Xenon and Ka'ak and SCA pirate scum and your trade ships are being shot to pieces right left and center because non of the factions have got enough engine parts/hull parts/smart chips/claytronics [delete as required] etc so they can't build any combat ships to deal with the situation, or trade ships to feed their factories, then you, dear player, can either sit there and whine about it or you can work out what needs to be done then get off your arse and do something about it.

In other words the player is more meaningfully connected to the macro economics of the X4 universe than in previous X games (especially early on) and their game may well go pear shaped if they don't read these situations right and act accordingly.

I like this direction of travel in X4. I don't call this a bug, I call it a feature.

But I am talking in principle here - I'm still struggling to figure out exactly how should deal with these issues in my game - so I can't and won't comment if Ego have got the precise details of how all this works nailed down yet.

[Socratatus]

What I mean with broken is, that the economy don't produces a very important part and I'm not able to produce it for myself because I need exactly this part to build my production for the missing part.

So long as there is at least one Claytronics factory in existence your game is far from broken. You can fix it. If you have a problem with claytronics it basically your "fault". I do not mean this harshly. I am also dealing with shortage issues that frustrate my plans, but my problems are different to your problems, my universe appears to be different to yours. Like you I was not expecting it (I don't recall things working out like this in X3) and I am having to scratch my head and take seriously the question of what to do about it.

It seems to me that Egosoft may have deliberately put these "problems" or "imbalances" into the economy firstly to create major differences between playthroughs (what works in one game may not work so well in another 'cos different shortages occur etc maybe) and secondly to make the player a more central figure in how thew game plays out.

For example if the universe is crawling with Xenon and Ka'ak and SCA pirate scum and your trade ships are being shot to pieces right left and center because non of the factions have got enough engine parts/hull parts/smart chips/claytronics [delete as required] etc so they can't build any combat ships to deal with the situation, or trade ships to feed their factories, then you, dear player, can either sit there and whine about it or you can work out what needs to be done then get off your arse and do something about it.

In other words the player is more meaningfully connected to the macro economics of the X4 universe than in previous X games (especially early on) and their game may well go pear shaped if they don't read these situations right and act accordingly.

I like this direction of travel in X4. I don't call this a bug, I call it a feature.

But I am talking in principle here - I'm still struggling to figure out exactly how should deal with these issues in my game - so I can't and won't comment if Ego have got the precise details of how all this works nailed down yet.

You are makiing a LOT of assumptions here. Nothing you say has been confirmed by the Devs. Also, logically, the Player should never be so central to the Universe ecomonics that he has to fix it when it goes wrong unless of course he destroyed the economy through a huge war he himself began. The general Universe AI should also be able to have some way to help its own economy too. Even then, once such a war is over the economy should pick itself back up regardless of the player `fixing` it. The Player should be able to `influence` somewhat but not `fix`. What you say makes little logical sense and only works if you`re desperate to make up things to excuse bugs.

Much of your words are making assumed excuses for the Devs.

[Falcrack]

What one person calls a "disaster" regarding the economy, I call "working as intended". I want the economy to have these sorts of problems from time to time. I want there to be the occasional shortage holding back my and AI projects. Because otherwise, what is the freaking point of having a game where all things need to be constructed from resources? Is it not to make it so that, from time to time, precisely these sorts of situations (claytronics shortages for example) occur?