Can we see actual gameplay?

[nemesis1982]

People want to see what they're getting before they commit. (...) I do understand since there are many cases of promises not fulfilled in recent history.

I do not.

It was of course a generalization and thus many people will not identify with it.

People are not patient anymore, and I do not really know when or why that has started (Is it due to all this pre-order BS?)...

I think it has to do with the amount of information that is thrown at them now a days. It results in a kind of paranoia from a lack of information. I do not think preorders are the cause though, just a result/abuse of this impatient behavior.

I, for example, am very sceptical regarding X4 after what has happened with X Rebirth. So this time I just wait until X4 has been released. Maybe just a couple of days, maybe some weeks.

It is understandable that you're apprehensive. The only reason I preordered is because I found a good deal (will not have directly available on launch though I think). I am however confident that Egosoft pulls through in the end. They might come out with something that you wouldn't want to call a finished product in anyway or form. However they keep supporting it for years to come! It just takes a year to get it in playable state (my opinion not fact!).

And maybe I will never buy X4. That will depend on reviews, actual gameplay videos and whatnot, which I will be there plentifully soon. Egosoft has the chance to convince me with their product -- the moment it arrives or later (when they fixed enough bugs) --, but I have no problem if they are not willing to show off anything before the official release. Time and money are on my side.

That's sensible! (Time and money are on your side? Where are you can i join, need them to do somethings for me )

[VALERIVS]

It was of course a generalization and thus many people will not identify with it.

...which is a good thing, because it keeps discussions alive.

Yes, Egosoft is not known for letting their games die some weeks after release. I have to say though that X Rebirth indeed was an all-time low point in their company's history, at least in my opinion. And I am not talking about the questionable game design: The bugs were unfathomable plentiful and did kill every attempt on actually liking the game. I seriously hope they do not got this route again with X4.

Well, just 3 more weeks and we will know more. Until then: Time, money... and COOKIES!

[Alci]

@spoiling the game: I think this has become a trend lately. People want to see what they're getting before they commit...

I won't touch the "generic" formulation of that but in X4 case it's not about spoilers really. The so called "spoilers" are all just things you would put in the manual in the "old days". Noone bothers with those anymore, but they were standard issue to EVERY game and they "somehow" managed to provide information without "spoilers". So manuals vs. spoilers, think about it

[Alci]

I do not. People are not patient anymore, and I do not really know when or why that has started (Is it due to all this pre-order BS?)...

now this is extremely shortsighted, so I guess you just don't "remember".

Obvious question would be "when people ever were patient?", but the answer is simple: "never, so far". It's curious the same phrasing (specially the "anymore" part) can be found in 19th century literature, in 18th century newspapers and in fact goes as far as 400BC, and that's not where it "started" that's as far as I've read about it. The only difference is, 21st century internet version starts with "these days...", that's new.

Truth is nature is not patient. Life always takes what it wants by any means necessary. So with the lack of better judgement I would say being patient is unnatural. And people are not far enough to not struggle with their primal instincts.

So now we have internet, didn't changed ANYTHING in people. It's just another "means" to ask for things. The part of "wanting" them NOW, the "people" part, is just the same as it "ever" was.

I, for example, am very sceptical regarding X4 after what has happened with X Rebirth.

if I may, this is very shortsighted either. If someone says "flu" way too many people imagine "fever". While I imagine the virus. Same as way too many people just "pay for a product". ...just something to thing about

[ZaldronTheSage]

@spoiling the game: I think this has become a trend lately. People want to see what they're getting before they commit...

I won't touch the "generic" formulation of that but in X4 case it's not about spoilers really. The so called "spoilers" are all just things you would put in the manual in the "old days". Noone bothers with those anymore, but they were standard issue to EVERY game and they "somehow" managed to provide information without "spoilers". So manuals vs. spoilers, think about it

Oh man, what I would do for a good ol fashioned manual with that fresh printed new box smell.

[Vandragorax]

I can't believe people are still pining for a written manual in 2018 lol Astounding!

[csaba]

I can't believe people are still pining for a written manual in 2018 lol Astounding!

For a game this complex? Ofc I need one. Built in guides usually fade away after one use and you have to restart them to appear. A book can be always by your hand.

[VALERIVS]

(...)

While I appreciate your attempt on a philosophical and even a historical analysis of patience, you either miss or simply ignore the context in which my answer has been posted. That of course allowes for some waxy elocution, but it does not mean that it makes sense. The same goes for my restraint regarding pre-ordering X4 after the X Rebirth debacle. But what about the initial question? What do you think: Should we get to see more gameplay before the release of X4?

[nemesis1982]

@spoiling the game: I think this has become a trend lately. People want to see what they're getting before they commit...

I won't touch the "generic" formulation of that but in X4 case it's not about spoilers really. The so called "spoilers" are all just things you would put in the manual in the "old days". Noone bothers with those anymore, but they were standard issue to EVERY game and they "somehow" managed to provide information without "spoilers". So manuals vs. spoilers, think about it

I whole heatedly disagree! You've defined what is and is not a spoiler for yourself and present it as fact. X games for me is about discovering the mechanics. So seeing them beforehand could be classified as a spoiler!

Also a manual would NOT be provided before release. It would be packaged with the game. Think about that was it?

PS this the way of formulating things I mean. Why not keep a opinion a opinion and please try to see a view point other than your own.

[Slashman]

I can't believe people are still pining for a written manual in 2018 lol Astounding!

For a game this complex? Ofc I need one. Built in guides usually fade away after one use and you have to restart them to appear. A book can be always by your hand.

And become totally irrelevant with a few patches. So you know...your mileage may vary.

[Vandragorax]

I can't believe people are still pining for a written manual in 2018 lol Astounding!

For a game this complex? Ofc I need one. Built in guides usually fade away after one use and you have to restart them to appear. A book can be always by your hand.

The last time I bought a 'manual' / game guide book, it was out of date within 6 months after a whole bunch of patches massively changed everything that was in the book lol. They had their place years ago when games were released and didn't change a lot, but now with DLCs, streaming online patches etc. they just don't last to be useful past the first few weeks

Edit: ninja'd by above post lol

[sd_jasper]

And become totally irrelevant with a few patches. So you know...your mileage may vary.

This! 100%! Like it or not, many games evolve and change over time. I for one like that ES is a company that listens to user feedback, and adjusts their games for years after release! But that means that instructions are going to be be changed over time. Putting something in print can just lead to more confusion.

Hell, I've seen games the get day one patches that make the printed instructions wrong.

[csaba]

Use a pen to put in notes or get an updated version. I don't mean to get a full colored picture handbook just some basic guidelines I don't feel bad about messing up with some ink.

Got to love having a printer at home. I can write my own and print it out if neccesary. Alt-Tab still doesn't quite work for XR, so having Roguey's open in the browser doesn't help me much.

[sd_jasper]

Use a pen to put in notes or get an updated version. I don't mean to get a full colored picture handbook just some basic guidelines I don't feel bad about messing up with some ink.

Got to love having a printer at home. I can write my own and print it out if neccesary. Alt-Tab still doesn't quite work for XR, so having Roguey's open in the browser doesn't help me much.

Set your screen to "borderless window" and that should help. Or use "alt tab" (steam overlay)... which is less than perfect, but works for me most of the time (just don't try to open IGN...)

[JSalzbrunn]

Go to your steam - X-Rebirth. On the right side just click "Manual" There you can download a .pdf manual for it. Should maybe helpfull

[Alan Phipps]

@ JSalzbrunn: [OT]Just don't expect it to be up to date. The X Rebirth Wiki is kept far more relevant than that manual.[/OT]

Back to discussing X4 gameplay information etc now please.

[fcth]

The so called "spoilers" are all just things you would put in the manual in the "old days".

Funny, I remember the X:BTF review I read way back in the day criticizing it for having an anemic manual. I think the company line was that not describing anything in the manual further immersed the player in the feeling of being lost in a distant part of space. I suspect it had more to do with the added challenge of producing a manual, especially for a German company publishing a (their first?) English version of the game.

In any event, I would definitely like to see more about how the mechanics work, but seems like we'll just have to dive in head first or wait for someone to stream the game.

[OneOfMany]

Have they released any footage of the UI when commanding or viewing fleets of ships?

[Sao t'Lp]

Yes they have. I can't find it right now but in the video they've launched fighters from a carrier and commanded them to attack a target - everything was done on the map. Relevant FAQ entries:

Will we be able to select units by drawing a frame in the map overview?
Yes.
Will we get context based single click commands?
Example: right-clicking on an enemy orders all selected ships to attack it, without opening the little context menu./ giving move orders when clicking in empty space / giving follow order on friendlies / etc.
I doubt it, as there are few cases in which there is only one logical action.
Will we be able to queue commands easily?
Example: holding shift and giving move commands adds them into a command queue. This queue will be worked through in the order that they were given.
Yes

[BigBANGtheory]

Have they released any footage of the UI when commanding or viewing fleets of ships?

a very quick look yes, its in one of the streams they did.... a huge improvement over X3 & XR on the surface*

*other factors aren't clear yet like formations, AI behaviour, having worthy adversaries, 3D movement etc until we play it hard to tell whats what