Posted: Fri, 25. May 18, 13:26
X6 in 2025?.. No way. That's the year when first mentions of possible X5 would only start appearing.
Space simulation development
https://forum.egosoft.com/
This is exactly what they have done. Seems you're forgetting X4 is the next iteration after X3, not the next iteration of Rebirth. So when you compare X3 to X4, they have removed a lot of fundamental game features of X3 and added features tested in Rebirth, and expect us to be grateful.spankahontis wrote:Creative Assembly taught me what happens when you cut content and slowly reintroduce it and expect us to be grateful.
Accepting the Status Quo is also what people do when they don't speak out when they don't like something, and that's exactly what this thread is all about. The fact is that you are accepting the Status Quo by not letting players exercise their right to show they are unhappy with certain major game changes that were in X3 but removed from X4.spankahontis wrote:That's not Status Quo, Status Quo is sticking with the same which X3 Fanboys sadly want this game to remain and it will stagnate the franchise.
I did for the only other game I was interested in in 2013. You may have heard of it. It was called Sim City.ZaphodBeeblebrox wrote:Graaf the ghost of X-games past.
Do you turn up on other game forums and tell people how rubbish a game is even though you don't own a copy. Just like you did for Rebirth?
The difference from Creative Assembly is they were caught repackaging Content that was already in the Game on release date, they sold it back as DLC to make Pre-Order Sales, they still did this with Warhammer with the Chaos Faction Dlc, selling new unique Faction playthroughs as dlc.Graaf wrote:But isn't this exactly what Egosoft is doing now too? You're about to buy a new game for the ability to pilot more ships and have the Paranids return. And in the future we get the Boron DLC.spankahontis wrote:Creative Assembly taught me what happens when you cut content and slowly reintroduce it and expect us to be grateful. ..... I don't want Egosoft to follow their model, I welcome their bold approach.
Honestly, I don't see the difference.
The only new thing is the walking part, along with a load of mini-games to give you the illusion it has a purpose.spankahontis wrote:Egosoft aren't dumbing down or boneing their Game to a Husk, for what they've cut out, they've added new features to compensate
Although X3 didn't have attachable object, like Rebirth does, I did have ships and stations. But I didn't mention those, did I. I mentioned the ability to pilot more ships and the reintroduction of 1 race now, and possibly another later.spankahontis wrote:Stuff from Rebirth....Which X3 doesn't have
And here we have the problem. I always thought it was the single ship limitation, but I was wrong. It actually is the Walking part. It is a time sink that doesn't add anything meaningful to the game now, and it is unlikely to do so in the future. But it takes a massive amount of time and resources to build a game around. Zaphod may have been joking about 2025, but I don't he is far off.spankahontis wrote:Then there is the Stations with Hundreds of attachable Objects that you can walk inside of (Which X3 doesn't have) This is time consuming so can understand why we don't see Split, Boron, Paranid Style Modules, the number of Human/Terran Modules in Rebirth ALONE is staggering; when they reintroduce these and can walk around (Or maybe even swin inside) a Boron Facility and walk around a Paranid Facility then we will see how full of content X4 is to Rebirth and far beyond X3 and what it's Engine could accomplish.
And as I pointed out previously, were talking fully fleshed out 3d Models with animations, randomly generated on Stations, while at the same time, adding voice acting, clothes, accessories, classes that sell items, become crewman, activate missions etc..Graaf wrote:Although X3 didn't have attachable object, like Rebirth does, I did have ships and stations. But I didn't mention those, did I. I mentioned the ability to pilot more ships and the reintroduction of 1 race now, and possibly another later.
Walking around isn't the only feature and deep down you know that, why you keep focussing on this particular feature, I don't know?Graaf wrote:The only new thing is the walking part,
There was too many ships in X3:AP, the game engine was overburdened with ships, ships that require resources from the games Engine, less space for other features.Graaf wrote:And here we have the problem. I always thought it was the single ship limitation, but I was wrong. It actually is the Walking part. It is a time sink that doesn't add anything meaningful to the game now, and it is unlikely to do so in the future. But it takes a massive amount of time and resources to build a game around. Zaphod may have been joking about 2025, but I don't he is far off.
No, they're not. They're building interiors.spankahontis wrote:They're building a Universe here.
I'm actually offended by that.spankahontis wrote:This takes time and patience which they had too little time, for customers with even little patience.
Well, I like to advice you that you should stay out off the system your Orca is mining in. But honestly, you should have known that a long time ago.spankahontis wrote:Then there is proper mining, both X3 and Rebirth have Mining vessels, but in Rebirth, they worked. Mining with an Orca in X3 just lead to the ship getting damaged, spent more money repairing it than making profit, the point that you just automatically plopped a mining station on a rock with unlimited Silicon and Iron Ore.
Sure the asteroids in both games were procedurally generated, but Rebirth's were more realistic. They were mined by ships, collected by drones and delivered to a station for processing.
Useless planets that can kill you. Nice to contradict yourself.spankahontis wrote:The ability to actually explore all the Sectors of a System rather than a ****** 200km x 200km area with pretty wallpaper Planet/Moon in the distance.
Then there is dangerous regions of Space, which to be fair X3 had with flying too close to Planets Atmosphere but Rebirth took this further with dangerous regions of Space that do damage to Ships, there are too many to point out in one sitting.
Sure, but you only have 8 systems. It's still a small universe. Maybe when we get back to 200 again the engine will let you notice. You may even want the Jumpdrive back again.spankahontis wrote:Seamless gate travel, no loading screens.
With more races come more ships. With more factions come more designs. Rebirth is a small game.spankahontis wrote:There was too many ships in X3:AP, the game engine was overburdened with ships, ships that require resources from the games Engine, less space for other features.
only 100 ships vs 500 ships, Non-issue for me personally, Quantity in this case doesn't account for Quality here.
I joined with X2. That would make XBtF is a step back. And like you, I compare Rebirth with XBtF: A step back. Sure, maybe an technological step forward as a tech demo, but not as an X-game.spankahontis wrote:XBTF had a single ship, all those multiple ships to pilot didn't come along until later sequels, yet you're not spitting your dummy out over that?
Yes, and probably doable without the Walking part.spankahontis wrote:You're expecting a new game engine like Rebirth which is the XBTF of it's engine to have all the features of X3 and more in the space of seven to ten years.
That's because I look at it from a different perspective. Like the size comparison of the game universe.spankahontis wrote:For what Egosoft has managed to accomplish with Rebirth with the time they had should be applauded and X4 has had 3 more years breathing room for greater improvement on that.
But again you refuse to see that,
I'm flattered you consider me an expert.spankahontis wrote:Heck you don't even own the game so how can you be an expert on everything Rebirth+2 DLCs contains?
I won't deny that X3 has some issues, but nowhere near that of Rebirth's. With stats like these, I would say it's on design level.spankahontis wrote:I loved X3, but I can name 101 reasons it failed and needed improvements, the same goes for Rebirth, I could find 101 reasons it failed, but it doesn't make either game bad, no game has ever scored a 10 out of 10 for me, not even the Elder Scrolls, Sim City etc.
Totally wrong, It's the same game engine as Rebirth, didn't you notice in the alpha footage how the ships fly like they do in Rebirth? The Station walking is still there? No load screens, NO BORON!! etc.Fleabum wrote:This is exactly what they have done. Seems you're forgetting X4 is the next iteration after X3, not the next iteration of Rebirth. So when you compare X3 to X4, they have removed a lot of fundamental game features of X3 and added features tested in Rebirth, and expect us to be grateful.
Which again proves my point, there will be less ships in X4, more than Rebirth but allot less than X3.Fleabum wrote:I can see the point of view of people who liked Rebirth, they want Rebirth2, Rebirth was too limiting, not enough ships, not enough weapons. They now want Rebirth with new ships, weapons, stations, better economy and many of the (selected) features from X3 (they liked). Well it looks like thats what X4 will be, so they should be happy.
Who's stopping you voicing your concern, you shouldn't jump to conclusions; I welcome what your saying, I just don't agree with you on most of what your saying.Fleabum wrote:Accepting the Status Quo is also what people do when they don't speak out when they don't like something, and that's exactly what this thread is all about. The fact is that you are accepting the Status Quo by not letting players exercise their right to show they are unhappy with certain major game changes that were in X3 but removed from X4.
I love X3, i've played just under 1000 hours of it, to me that's a success.Fleabum wrote:And you calling people X3 fanboys is a bit of a disservice. They are the avid and loyal customers that are still playing a game long after its expiry date.
No they're building more in-depth Systems, where you can fly from Planet to planet; again with the interiors!Graaf wrote: No, they're not. They're building interiors.
When are you never offended? No, i'm being serious here!Graaf wrote:I'm actually offended by that.
That's a TERRIBLE excuse for a poorly implemented mining mechanic!Graaf wrote:Well, I like to advice you that you should stay out off the system your Orca is mining in. But honestly, you should have known that a long time ago.
And I believe there is a mining station in Rebirth, although it isn't used as one.
PMSL!! Son i've been telling Egosoft that for years, but everytime I ask about Planets with Stations to Land on, it gets shot down by Ketraar and CBJ.Graaf wrote:Useless planets that can kill you. Nice to contradict yourself.
Dangerous regions in space. Are these like Hull/Shield Eating Nebulae from X2.
We can argue that Sector/Zone/System has changed it's meaning when you add every zone in every sector in every system but that wouldn't sink in to you.Graaf wrote:Sure, but you only have 8 systems. It's still a small universe. Maybe when we get back to 200 again the engine will let you notice. You may even want the Jumpdrive back again.
Did you know that a 8Gb graphics card with 32Gb of RAM severely cuts loading time in X3.
Smaller than X3? Yes, a case of a new engine trying play catch up to a trilogy that's had a decade to get where it was; but were going round in circles here.Graaf wrote:With more races come more ships. With more factions come more designs. Rebirth is a small game.
I see Rebirth as a buggy X3 Reunion level game on release, but with different features that Reunion couldn't have.Graaf wrote:I joined with X2. That would make XBtF is a step back. And like you, I compare Rebirth with XBtF: A step back. Sure, maybe an technological step forward as a tech demo, but not as an X-game.
*sigh*Graaf wrote:Yes, and probably doable without the Walking part.
Buy the Game, play it, you can't have a perspective on something you've never played.Graaf wrote:That's because I look at it from a different perspective. Like the size comparison of the game universe.
That's what perspective is all about, analysing someone's character and personality.Graaf wrote:I'm flattered you consider me an expert.
That's not down to bad design, if Rebirth released on V3.0, V4.0 that link you just posted would not be the same.Graaf wrote:I won't deny that X3 has some issues, but nowhere near that of Rebirth's. With stats like these, I would say it's on design level.
Sorry to correct you, but you really have missed my point, not by a few feet, but by a mile. For me, it’s not about the engine, it never has been. It could be written in Unity, Unreal, native C# or whatever Egosoft call their ‘Rebirth’ engine. I am not talking about the engine and I couldn’t care less about the engine…. It’s what is created with the engine. It’s the removal of fundamental X3 game elements and addition of pointless elements between X3 and X4, not between X3-Rebirth-X4 that is my bone of contention.spankahontis wrote:Totally wrong, It's the same game engine as Rebirth, didn't you notice in the alpha footage how the ships fly like they do in Rebirth? The Station walking is still there? No load screens, NO BORON!! etc.
Yet again your comparing Rebirth to X4, it should be X3 to X4. Too many ships? You’re personal opinion, maybe, but not mine. I would not only love to see more ships, but also ones that are based upon standard designs, but modified in such a way that pirates and bounty hunters would in a realistic environment. A standard fighter equipped with heavy weapons that has lesser shielding or speed. Just like motor cars in our world today, people tweak and make theirs quicker but use more fuel, why would this be different to vehicles in space? It wouldn’t. When it comes to ships, more is better. Yet again I am comparing X3 to X4, not Rebirth to X4. X3 had quality and quantity of ships, so X4 should build upon this, so I don’t really see your point here that less is better. (although I would love to see the names changed M7 bigger than a M5 just made no sense).spankahontis wrote: there will be less ships in X4, more than Rebirth but allot less than X3. They mentioned this in their last Alpha Q&A I believe? That X3:AP had too many ships, they're looking for a balance between too few from Rebirth to too many in X3. But as I mentioned before, a case of "Quality not Quantity ".
I have no idea what a Republican debating the Constitution would look like, I guess that’s an USA political thing, means little to me in the EU. But there’s a reason as you put it ‘X3 Camp’ wont let X3 breath, they play X3 and not Rebirth, make of that what you will, but looking at the hours played by X3 series and the Rebirth series shows where people's loyalties lie, these are cold hard facts, they can be quantified. X3 still has more players than Rebirth, why is this? X3 is a better game (based upon statistics).spankahontis wrote:That's the problem i'm seeing with a sizeable portion of the X3 Camp, they wont let X3 Breath, it's like debating a Republican on the Constitution, they don't accept that the whole point of an Amendment is that it can be 'amended', they see it as blasphemous to even consider updating an 1800's Text.
Depends on your viewpoint I suppose, I tried Rebirth, I really did. I even pre ordered two copies, one for me and one for the missus. It was utter sh*te, the early reviews were right, if but a little kind. In my opinion it was a sad attempt at making something like X3 for console lovers. It looked like something for a console, it smelled like something for a console, it even tasted like something for a console. But this was my failing, I was expecting X4, and it wasn't so I carried on playing X3... that makes me a hardliner I suppose. I sent one of the games back, and still have a pristine unopened Rebirth on my shelf, just to remind me never to pre-order a game again.spankahontis wrote:Sadly there are what I call 'Fanboys' I should of changed that to 'Hardliners' as a more accurate description, ones that will force the franchise to 'stagnate' because they fear 'too much' change, Rebirth triggered that defensive nature which many X Fans have and well.. We've both sat and read 3 years of the venom being spewed out on the Rebirth forum; there was so much pitchfolk and barely any creative criticism to find, not until the heat died down anyway.
This one statement says it all, X4 can’t be a Rebirth/X3 hybrid. Rebirth was an arcade game playing at being a universe simulator, X3 was a universe simulator with added arcade action. In essence just too different gameplay styles. So, it’s either X4 or Rebirth2, you cant have your cake and eat it. It still looks like Rebirth2 more than X4. I am willing to wait and see how the new game compares to X3, I hope I am wrong that its really Rebirth2. I don't think you can repair the divide unless all the Rebirth nonsense is removed from X4.spankahontis wrote:X4 being a hybrid of the 2 games I hope will bring the community back together, or at least repair some of the divide.
Well said.Fleabum wrote:...
Just accept that I see X4 as the next iteration of X3, if it contains more Rebirth than X3 then its Rebirth2, not X4 and lets leave it at that.
...
Regards
Flea
"pointless station walking" - The point of station walking (in X4) is to create a seamless universe where you can land one ship, exit it and walk over to another, and then take off in that ship.Fleabum wrote:X3 didn't need, and X4 doesn't need pointless station walking, pointless open the lootcrate minigames, pointless spaghetti bumper cars, pointless rancid crew interactions with a countdown, hell, I don't even want to interact with a crew, they get paid, they follow my orders and if they dont they get spaced out of the nearest airlock.
In X Rebirth (and presumably in X4) local highways are not enclosed. The "tube" is just a visual effect to show where the highway is and what direction it goes. Ships can enter and exit at any point along the local highway.Honved wrote:I see the addition of "express travel lanes" in each direction as a potentially positive way of aiding navigation across large sectors. The ships should be able to gradually accelerate to higher "travel" speeds outside of the lanes as well, but the lanes would allow for automatic navigation and safer "hands free" operation than trying to cut directly across a sector to a remote destination. The inclusion of enclosed structures in space, as "tubes" that you have to fly through, was just silly. PLEASE, no tubes.
Well, since optionality is back, why not give us the option to use, or in your case, to not use, the jumpdrive?Santi wrote:Space Highways are not an issue if you can use other methods to speed up your travelling times. With boosters, SETA, and autopilot, you can totally ignore highways if you want to do so. I am holding my thoughts in Teleportation till I know more about it.
This is one of the few cases where Egosoft has gone the extra mile and make how you travel around the Universe "an option".
You are happy with highways, you can use them, your are not, then do not use them as they are one of many options, it is a player choice.
Think about this for a minute. What happens in a game where factions can destroy enemy stations... and have the ability to move a whole fleet to the enemy's stronghold?Graaf wrote:Well, since optionality is back, why not give us the option to use, or in your case, to not use, the jumpdrive?