egosoft.com

Will X4 have VR and head tracking capabilities?

They said in the presentation that they are not planning on VR at first, if at all. They make a point that VR is very different and requires huge changes to how the game works. As for track IR i dont think it's mentioned.

EDIT: Heres the answer https://youtu.be/T10iR69-PqQ?t=2445

I curious if Egosoft want to supported VR for coming X4 Titel, any news about it?

That would be really awesome to see all this universe in VR.

According to the german presentation not at release but they are considering a seperate vr version.

If that is true i wont buy it, since i played Elite Dangerous in VR.... Flatscreen is a no go,
i hope they think about it. But to create a X-Rebirth VR as a seperate game
and ignore the VR again for X4, that would be really shit.

Please developers, VR is available in a good state... we dont need VR exclusive, just the optional VR support, that dont take much development time... its not need to be perfect,
even if its limited to cockpit view it would be awesome.

As Bernd explained in both the English and German presentation, they are not ignoring VR as a technology. However, as VR requires major changes to the game interface, balancing as well as severe changes to ensure a proper framerate (read: performance), it's not viable to add VR support from the start. And then there's also the question after the market saturation of VR, which is still rather low.

You can watch Bernd's reply to the VR question here.

This was explained in detail during the presentation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T10iR69-PqQ&t=2447

Edit: bah - got distracted rewatching parts of the presentation and now I've been beaten to the punch...

Koboldx wrote:Please developers, VR is available in a good state... we dont need VR exclusive, just the optional VR support, that dont take much development time... its not need to be perfect,
even if its limited to cockpit view it would be awesome.

We were working on X Rebirth VR Edition for a year, that is a LOT of development time. And "just make it optional" doesn't make it any less work, on the contrary.
And especially with a market as young and relatively small as VR if you throw out a low quality product it'll hurt the ecosystem as a whole.

X2-Illuminatus wrote:And then there's also the question after the market saturation of VR, which is still rather low.

From what I can see, indications are that VR as we currently know it, will remain a small fringe market because of cost and cumbersome hardware among other reasons. Certainly not worth putting precious development resources into initially.

I saw differend games with additional VR support now and it doesnt hurt anyone to support the VR experience at all, even mod's supported Doom3 BFG a game who is many many hears old and playable with motion controlls or what about Assetto Corsa or Dirt Rally, there was no VR support planned at all and baaamm VR support in just few month and in a good state, cause its just cockpit View... im not talking about full VR controlls or other stuff, but its from this side to expand in future releases.

And the new X4 is supported by vulcan, a really good engine... no one can tell me that it isnt possible to rendering a game with low Details with enough frames... 90fps with the best hardware in the end of 2018.

Im running Project Cars, the game has a really high detailed modells and physic/particel effects with my Oculus CV1 in 4,5k (Pixel Density 2.0) with my PC today with 60-70fps, enough fps for me, maybe not for everyone (thanks to ATW).

I dont really understand why is bernd talking about it, that it wouldnt be possible to
make the same version available for VR, there is always a option to cut details of,
LOD low, Textures low and and and, to fit the right frame target for the right CPU or GPU.

There coming 6 cores/12 Treads CPU's out in 2 Month and who knows what hardware is available in the end 2018.

And no one knows how many more people own a Rift or Vive in 2018, the prices went down and are available for everyone soon, even today 450€ for Rift and Motioncontrollers are cheaper than a 1440p TFT Screen...

The biggest step is to get the morrons use VR and make them clear that VR is no 3D shutter effect like in the cinemas or the fail from the 90s. I dont saw anyone who wasnt impressed after i put him under my VR Device, even the biggest moron would change his mind.

Vulcan is not an engine just the framework for drawing graphics, so its up to Egosoft if their engine will support it ( They all ready said they would). I am guessing its more to do with the extra work load creating the new GUI and testing that comes with it, along with having to go that extra mile to optimise the games performance before launch so it doesn't make you throw up.

Also there is more to people getting VR then just the price of the VR unit. The PC specs you need to run VR games add to the cost, plus there are people like me who cant stand the quality/resolution drop from a 4k monitor. Not sure how that makes me a moron :/

@ KoboldX: Any more 'moron' usage and the relevant posts will get axed. Thank you.

Alan Phipps wrote:@ KoboldX: Any more 'moron' usage and the relevant posts will get axed. Thank you.

Sorry i dont want to blame anyone who is neutral and to killerog i dont see why u think i called you a moron.

That was more to people with prejudices, calling VR will fail without even trying it or with really bad hardware or put it on his head to get a really unsharp view, there is always a way to say VR is shit if someone want it to fail it, for what ever reason.

I saw many many people say VR is bad or resolution sucks, but never even heard about Pixel Density... or IPD Range for your Eyes, all that stuff this is relavant for VR
and this is ignored from people to judge about the device and the technology.
There are so many possible fixes to get a much much more better view and experience when it comes to VR.

Stuff like VR Cover and VR Lenslab, that gives a so much better use for the device.

And some people and even developer should considering there is coming brand new displays for VR, next year with very high Pixel per Inch and low latency... VR development is not going to die and there is much much more in development
and for me its a pain to see that egosoft dont really care about it and only say maybe in a seperate version, that makes me really sad.

I just see Elite Dangerous and there isnt a problem for the developers to give the same game available for VR and non VR users and egosoft use the same Engine with the Vulcan API for XR-VR.

Since discovering Elite Dangerous in my Oculus CV1 I simply can't go back to playing space games on a flat screen. I just bought XR VR on Steam and will only buy VR versions of cockpit games from now on. It's perhaps hard to describe to someone who's never tried it, but cockpit games in VR are so much better than the non-VR version that it makes going back feel like going from a current generation 60-inch LED flatscreen to a 12-inch black & white from 1967. Even X3, which is not ported, can be played in full 3D using SBS with BigScreen and Tridef, and, while not really VR, it completely rejuvenates the game. Seriously, if you play a space game only on a flat screen, you're not REALLY playing the game.

I am confident that the game will be ported and will wait until that release to buy.

Bonus: Given the amount of bugs Egosoft games are known to ship with at launch, I'm sure I'll end up with a better gameplay experience.

But X is NOT Elite and if all you want is fly in empty space then you are probably set with elite. The point is that many player like X games for the economy simulation, or the building aspect. None of which are enhance by VR but would require to be balanced (aka stripped) to work or allow the frame rates that VR requires.

This is easy to understand and the developer said its the better choice for the reasons presented. Doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

MFG

Ketraar

Ketraar wrote:But X is NOT Elite and if all you want is fly in empty space then you are probably set with elite. The point is that many player like X games for the economy simulation, or the building aspect. None of which are enhance by VR but would require to be balanced (aka stripped) to work or allow the frame rates that VR requires.

This is easy to understand and the developer said its the better choice for the reasons presented. Doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

MFG

Ketraar

I really hate to disagree with a moderator but, with the greatest respect, there are plenty of games out there that focus on trading and/or building. If you're making a game set in space and played mostly from a sitting position, then VR, in this day and age is pretty much a must going forward. Even for stuff like building stations, the controls wouldn't be much different from what is currently implemented for navigating the 3D universe map in ED, and trading is essentially just a bunch of menus. And let's not even discuss battles, where VR is several orders of magnitude better than a flat screen. I am confident that Egosoft will release a VR version eventually and I will buy it. I'd wager that, in a few years, VR will be the primary development mode for such games. Once experienced, it's very difficult to go back. But to each his own.

It doesn't negate that VR has severe performance concerns...

Elite:Dangerous only ever has one station on the screen at one time. X4 could have multiple stations, plus capital ships, plus lots of little ships, plus an asteroid belt, plus NPC models walking around, all at the same time and then double-rendered at high fps. I have nothing against VR games at all, but I don't want X4 compromised because of it.

Just to be clear, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing, moderator or not.

But my point was exactly that of performance, may worded it unclear, but comparing elite with XR/X4 is just wrong, for the reasons Sandalpocalypse described.

Apples and oranges and all that.

MFG

Ketraar

Sandalpocalypse wrote:It doesn't negate that VR has severe performance concerns...

Elite:Dangerous only ever has one station on the screen at one time. X4 could have multiple stations, plus capital ships, plus lots of little ships, plus an asteroid belt, plus NPC models walking around, all at the same time and then double-rendered at high fps. I have nothing against VR games at all, but I don't want X4 compromised because of it.

And all the other ships and stations in the universe. The OOS calculations are simplified but they still take time. XR:VR has fewer stations that XR.

Also, graphic settings can be lowered to increase FPS. You don't have that option with the simulation.

Vanir wrote:Will X4 have VR and head tracking capabilities?

Why not go with a facetracking software instead .. . very cheap and works almost just as well. You only need a decent webcam for this ...

Sandalpocalypse wrote:It doesn't negate that VR has severe performance concerns...

Elite:Dangerous only ever has one station on the screen at one time. X4 could have multiple stations, plus capital ships, plus lots of little ships, plus an asteroid belt

False information, here is a video from ED with a station and 2 Kapital Ships and NPC Ships docking...
https://youtu.be/pyrYh2dhsC8

And there are even now Asteroid Belt Station.

Sandalpocalypse wrote: plus NPC models walking around, all at the same time and then double-rendered at high fps. I have nothing against VR games at all, but I don't want X4 compromised because of it.

I think you got alot against VR, cause there is no compromised for VR... thats total wrong, if someone want to play with low graphic settings, doesnt mean you have to use the same settings, i think your post is selfish.

Ketraar wrote:But X is NOT Elite and if all you want is fly in empty space then you are probably set with elite.

Okay empty space like this?
https://youtu.be/Mt67MLcTDpA?t=173

Ketraar wrote: The point is that many player like X games for the economy simulation, or the building aspect. None of which are enhance by VR but would require to be balanced (aka stripped) to work or allow the frame rates that VR requires.

Almost everything in this presetation doesnt make sense, people are playing XR-VR with the default XR universe and they love it:

https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=395702

I think the only reason for egosoft is to release a seperated version to get payed twice, the devs use the same engine and the same API and im pretty sure it would be running okay for people with Highend PC's.

Just to get this clear, everyone who play x4 in future in 4k with 60fps got no problems to play it in VR with 90fps even with higher resolution than the VR native res and the native resolution is only 2140x1080 at this moment.

As long egosoft would do his job and optimise their game for the newest CPUs and GPUs, everyone should be fine to play it in a decent framerate... and if not there are other features like Asynchron Time Warp and Asynchron Space Warp, if his PC's cant handle it.

I saw in the presentation at gamescom no true reason why egosoft dont get x4 VR ready... and if its the man power problem, i dont know why egosoft waste time for some shaders for the background Planets and still got this really low polygon NPC's.