Paid DLC in X4

[spankahontis]

Maybe I should try another example:
As an stand-alone expansion a la X3, you are going to have to pay for Rebirth 2 (aka X4) because they can't make multiple players ships working with the current Rebirth mechanics.

But should "the real X4" have all the races from X3 or are you going to have to pay even more to get the Boron and Paranid? Or DLC to make all ships pilotable?

X4 will have multiple flyable ships, nothing to do with X Rebirth where from day one Egosoft make it clear that only one ship will be flyable.

Nothing to do with Rebirth? It's mostly savegame-incompatibility that requires it to be a new game. I highly doubt that they are going to be making a whole new game.
X4 as they like to call it will most likely just be Rebirth 2, the same game you already have with the ability to fly a few more uninteresting ships.

Most People tend to stick to a few certain ships on X3 games anyway.
I only ever went for the ships that had the best stats and half-decent manoeuvrability.
Flying super huge barges and big slows was dull as it was time consuming without SETA.
And if you need an aid like SETA to get you through such ad tedium's and make your Ocre Ship move to the left a little faster then it's a failed feature.
Like fast forwarding through the parts of a film you don't like just to get to the best bits.. Hence why bother even watching the film in the first place?
That you can walk around inside ships, sit in the Cockpit is something to be cheered, Egosoft listened and with VR to add to the whole Cockpit experience paired with the restoration of multiple ships (which I'm sure in future updates will be increased even further) There is no reason to complain about the next title in this fashion or even Rebirth.
Baby steps improvements to getting what we all want.

Seems the littlest things trigger you off when perhaps there are more justifiable ways to to voice issues with the game that could hopefully be readdressed?

But should "the real X4" have all the races from X3 or are you going to have to pay even more to get the Boron and Paranid? Or DLC to make all ships pilotable?

And that's a good point.

X3 didn't have fully fleshed out NPC's, just an animated face on a monitor whenever you commed or shot at their ship.
Plain to see that it was allot simpler for Egosoft to go that route.

What they have now is allot more complex, randomly spawning animated bipeds with voice/dialogue.

I must admit that they may of underestimated the size of the task on this feature as the number of NPC clones that modders have tried to rectify and the Teladi Outpost DLC tried to improve amongst Teladi clones.
I didn't buy the explanation that Teladi were basically clones of each other to justify not putting any visual diversity into their NPC models (Thanks to Lino for listening to me about that, the skins look great!).

But I digress, they said (From what I read somewhere) "One of the Races are making a comeback" Boron/Paranid.
I would gladly pay for an expansion pack to re-introduce the other Faction if it came with a horde of new Systems, content, weapons, ships, voices etc. to justify a 30 pound price tag.
Like they used to do.
I don't trust online dlc and I personally think it shouldn't be encouraged.. I don't want to see Egosoft turning into Creative Assembly; or worse, resorting to micro-transactions just to get a few new skins, a new weapon, a new system etc.
The day that happens is the day I call Egosoft a day and stop supporting them.

[BigBANGtheory]

Will DLC be present in X4? Of course it will, crazy question tbh and its not something you are likely to influence as a player so don't let it get under your skin.

The broader and more important question is will it be good or evil DLC? I don't feel ES abused it in XR, you got some for free for a limited period and HoL wasn't just fluffly cockpit dice.

The sad truth is that good examples of DLC is hard to come by where as poor examples are well known peaking with the infamous Skyrim Horse Armour. It tends to be over priced and often smells of publisher interference.

My personal policy on DLC is that is has to be good quality and good value before I'll buy it I don't get emotionally attached to either side of the argument. I think DLC is different from legacy expansions in terms of scope and new content, there has of course been some ropey expansions too. To my mind the best way X Universe can use DLC is to introduce a new gameplay feature with associated content and let the players decide if they like it or not with their purchasing decisions.

[Graaf]

Seems the littlest things trigger you off when perhaps there are more justifiable ways to to voice issues with the game that could hopefully be readdressed?

Maybe it's a little thing for you, but I think they are big issues.

You keep all focussing on the "multiple pilotable ships", while the issue is the lack of gameplay because of the single ship limitation, which will not be addressed by more pilotable fighters. It's a problem that is caused by Rebirth being designed around 1 specific ship.

SETA has nothing to do with it. WIS is having an influence because they will try to keep it in the game and thus hampering progress. And VR is catering to about 1% of the total player base, therefor not really helping either.

Rebirth 2 (X4) is not going to solve the problems Rebirth has, nor will any DLC/Expansions for it.

[Sandalpocalypse]

the entire x series is developed on a game designed around 1 specific ship... if you liked ANY x game then such design problems are by definition solvable by your own lights!

[TDQuasar]

I am an old school player of X games. I see absolutely no reason to doubt Egosoft's handling of post-launch contents. I am confident it will be fair and we will also get some free content as usual. They messed up X:R and its launch, but they pretty much fixed the whole situation as much as it was possible. So I will be willing to pay for DLCs for X4, I think they will be meaningful additions.

[Nikola515]

the entire x series is developed on a game designed around 1 specific ship... if you liked ANY x game then such design problems are by definition solvable by your own lights!

I think problem with XR was quality & price(it had AAA price tag) for this day of age. For example one ship wouldn't be problem if it had deep customization. I would prefer something like Armored Core customization but we all have our ideas This might have been cutting edge game 10 or 15 years ago but compared to todays standards it is joke(I personally think game is ok even with its limitations). Also it don't help game being almost broken pre alpha when it come out and AI that is somewhat retarded....

Anyway back to topic.... I think DLCs would have been better if they added features like this :

1) Player shipyard- Where we can fully build and customize our ships any way we want. Like Fallout 4 Automatron DLC... For example we can take any ship add shields weapons and engines that we want (for a expensive price of course).

2) Customization Stations DLC- Adds a new CV that can build stations any way we want. For example if I want to build stations that produces fusion reactors and nothing else. Or we can have station that produce water and space fuel at same time

3) Build new Gates & Highways DLC- Similar to Hub from X3.....

I think this would have been better DLC than just adding new sectors that are pretty much copy paste and they don't bring almost anything new to gameplay.

Edit: Also I do need to give them credit for weapon mods. I think this was good idea and I hope they expand on it for hull, shields and engines. Also I would like to se some visuals improvements to them and not just numbers. Perhaps some 3D menus where we can see actual parts & items ???

[thrangar]

So do we know if X4 will have a new game engine or is that something we are waiting for at the con?

[Rei Ayanami]

3) Build new Gates & Highways DLC- Similar to Hub from X3.....

Curious, from a story/lore point of view : How would you install a pair of connected gates?
Of course, putting one where you are is no problem. But how would you put the other gate millions or billions of lightyears away at their target destination, without manually flying there for millions and billions of years? You can't jump there, there are no jump beacons because no one was possibly there yet because no gate is there. You can't gatetravel there, because otherwise you wouldn't need to place a gate there in the first place

Or do you mean changing existing gate connections/adding gates to already existing systems, not creating new ones?

Edit: Also I do need to give them credit for weapon mods. I think this was good idea and I hope they expand on it for hull, shields and engines. Also I would like to se some visuals improvements to them and not just numbers. Perhaps some 3D menus where we can see actual parts & items ???

I agree, the weapon mods system is a great thing, it offers alot of different gameplay variations by changing 'simple' weapon parameters, i'd love to see this system expanded, for weapons, shields and engines. And that some NPCs also use them, at random.

[Alan Phipps]

@ thrangar: It has been frequently stated by devs that X4 will have a game engine based on that used in X Rebirth. That affects what improved capacities and capabilities the game can have (compared with X3 say) and does not mean that the gameplay, UI and game content has to be particularly similar to that of Rebirth.

In X4 there may well be further game engine improvements alongside their new in-house graphics engine based on Vulkan when compared with stock Rebirth, but that is all yet to be explained in detail.

[Pesanur]

@Nikola515

Those are exactly the types of DLCs that I personally don't like and aren't to pay for.

I'm ok with DLC's that adds a bunch of new sectors and/or new plots, but pay for a DLC's that only add a new feature, new station, new weapon or new ship? Never.

[Nikola515]

@Rei Ayanami

I think there is mod that can make random sectors or something like that (ego could do something like this too)...According to plot Ancients sent millions of seeds all over universe to crate gates so with gates down we could reconnect to any of them if we wore able to build gates (like terrans in X3). Universe is huge so we could theoretically open gate to unknown sectors and zones. If Terrans/Paranid and corporations could get technology to build gates/highways so should player later in game and start expanding size of universe.It would be interesting features.... All though it would need expanding universe for this to work...

@Pesanur

What XR needs is more features and not just copy and paste universe. There are already mods that can do that. I think more flash out features would do more good to XR or any other X universe games than expending universe(adding systems). Adding weapons mods feature was good idea and I hope they keep it up... My point is what you could do in HoL DLC that you couldn't do in Albion or OL (beside having ability to build warehouse and getting certain weapons) ? Adding bundle of new features in single DLC would work better ?

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

My point is what you could do in HoL DLC that you couldn't do in Albion or OL (beside having ability to build warehouse and getting certain weapons) ? Adding bundle of new features in single DLC would work better ?

I've added a list of things unique to the HoL DLC that I can think of to the wiki under the heading "Unique aspects of this DLC".

Probably only the Warehouse can be tested in the free 4.00-era demo, which is based in the HoL solar system. Other things in the DLC relate to other solar systems it provides. Changes in the X Rebirth 4.10 update were not back-ported to the demo.

[Ezarkal]

I've added a list of things unique to the HoL DLC that I can think of to the wiki under the heading "Unique aspects of this DLC".

You could also add the two new weapons. I'm pretty sure you can only find them in the DLC systems unless you mod the game.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

You could also add the two new weapons. I'm pretty sure you can only find them in the DLC systems unless you mod the game.

You're right - done, and thanks

[thrangar]

@ thrangar: It has been frequently stated by devs that X4 will have a game engine based on that used in X Rebirth. That affects what improved capacities and capabilities the game can have (compared with X3 say) and does not mean that the gameplay, UI and game content has to be particularly similar to that of Rebirth.

In X4 there may well be further game engine improvements alongside their new in-house graphics engine based on Vulkan when compared with stock Rebirth, but that is all yet to be explained in detail.

Sooo I have no Idea what you just said, accept that it will be a somewhat same engine as rebirth(which is different from X3, I didn't know that)

But because it will be some what the same as Rebirth we can expect limitations to be forth coming as to how much more can be added that we all ready have in X3?

As to Vulcan I am hoping for a different look than rebirth ( did not appeal to me, but it did seem appealing to most

I do understand these questions will be addressed at the con

[spankahontis]

Seems the littlest things trigger you off when perhaps there are more justifiable ways to to voice issues with the game that could hopefully be readdressed?

Maybe it's a little thing for you, but I think they are big issues.

You keep all focussing on the "multiple pilotable ships", while the issue is the lack of gameplay because of the single ship limitation, which will not be addressed by more pilotable fighters. It's a problem that is caused by Rebirth being designed around 1 specific ship.

SETA has nothing to do with it. WIS is having an influence because they will try to keep it in the game and thus hampering progress. And VR is catering to about 1% of the total player base, therefor not really helping either.

Rebirth 2 (X4) is not going to solve the problems Rebirth has, nor will any DLC/Expansions for it.

X:BTF only had one ship and people enjoyed it and came back for more.
Then there were multiple ships introduced in later titles so I don't see how your point makes sense?

You don't want to be looking outside the ship when you're playing in VR.
And to snub VR because 'at the moment' not many people have it? Is a backwards opinion to have, VR is dropping in price and eventually it will be affordable for most people.
Sorry bur VR is the future of Space Sims.
Even this old fuddy duddy with my old Amstrad and ZX Spectrum, that was put off with old VR in the 90's, I laughed when they said it was the future on Tomorrows World.
I was convinced when I tried it for myself at a friends house. X Games were made for VR, the whole point of a Space simulation is to simulate the experience of space travel.
Besides, you can still switch between the 2 modes and common sense that X:4 will be the same, so your 1% argument isn't going anywhere; best of both Worlds.

SETA makes all the difference!
Navigating the largest ships, even doing a 90 Degree turn is a grind and needing SETA to speed up the process defeats the point of navigating large ships and the 'Game lore' behind SETA, it's supposed to be used to speed up long journeys, not to switch on and off when doing turns.. That shows a flaw so I partly agree with your view on SETA, but still doesn't give a reason to navigate large ships.
I'm sure many times the issue has been discussed to make Large Ships faster when manoeuvring and nobody could ever explain why it would be a good idea to make large ships more agile? Hence the SETA dilemma.

And it was pressure from the community to bring back SETA, so hampering had nothing to do with it.. Egosoft was riding a wave of angry customers and giving them what they want sadly outweighed what you wanted at the time.

As for X: Rebirth 2 not being able to readdress any problems it has?
There was never going to be a new X Game with the X3 Engine, was too large to handle and simply making another Expansion Pack to add new ships, Sectors and storyline wasn't going to cut it.
Like it or not They had to make a totally new engine, the direction it's going is unclear but I'm happy with it so far and after Home of Light many are as well with the Good Reviews.
Personally what your looking for is never going to happen, at least not for a very very long time.

[Graaf]

X:BTF only had one ship and people enjoyed it and came back for more.
Then there were multiple ships introduced in later titles so I don't see how your point makes sense?

Sorry, but I started with X2. I didn't buy Rebirth for the same reason I didn't buy X:BTF. They are both downgrades from what we have.
And as it currently looks, Rebirth 2 will be too.

You don't want to be looking outside the ship when you're playing in VR.
And to snub VR because 'at the moment' not many people have it? Is a backwards opinion to have, VR is dropping in price and eventually it will be affordable for most people.
Sorry bur VR is the future of Space Sims.
Even this old fuddy duddy with my old Amstrad and ZX Spectrum, that was put off with old VR in the 90's, I laughed when they said it was the future on Tomorrows World.
I was convinced when I tried it for myself at a friends house. X Games were made for VR, the whole point of a Space simulation is to simulate the experience of space travel.
Besides, you can still switch between the 2 modes and common sense that X:4 will be the same, so your 1% argument isn't going anywhere; best of both Worlds.

If I'm not mistaken you still need a graphics card capable of VR along with the VR-headset. Not everyone is willing or capable to afford that.
And if it is anything like 3D movies, then I have to say it's overrated.

SETA makes all the difference!
Navigating the largest ships, even doing a 90 Degree turn is a grind and needing SETA to speed up the process defeats the point of navigating large ships and the 'Game lore' behind SETA, it's supposed to be used to speed up long journeys, not to switch on and off when doing turns.. That shows a flaw so I partly agree with your view on SETA, but still doesn't give a reason to navigate large ships.
I'm sure many times the issue has been discussed to make Large Ships faster when manoeuvring and nobody could ever explain why it would be a good idea to make large ships more agile? Hence the SETA dilemma.

And it was pressure from the community to bring back SETA, so hampering had nothing to do with it.. Egosoft was riding a wave of angry customers and giving them what they want sadly outweighed what you wanted at the time.

A: Pointless point you are making since you aren't allowed to pilot capital ships.
B: If you could pilot capital ships, then SETA wouldn't work when you are making a turn since it deactivates when you start pressing keys. So only when you are not really piloting, like autopilot.
C: Having the software available doesn't mean you are forced to use it. And although I didn't buy Rebirth and don't use SETA in X3, I still voted to have it put in the game for those who do. Thus invalidating your point.

As for X: Rebirth 2 not being able to readdress any problems it has?
There was never going to be a new X Game with the X3 Engine, was too large to handle and simply making another Expansion Pack to add new ships, Sectors and storyline wasn't going to cut it.
Like it or not They had to make a totally new engine, the direction it's going is unclear but I'm happy with it so far and after Home of Light many are as well with the Good Reviews.
Personally what your looking for is never going to happen, at least not for a very very long time.

I never said I wanted the old engine back. The new engine is one of the few things I think are an improvement over X3. It's the design of the game that is the problem.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

Besides, you can still switch between the 2 modes and common sense that X:4 will be the same, so your 1% argument isn't going anywhere; best of both Worlds.

If I'm not mistaken you still need a graphics card capable of VR along with the VR-headset. Not everyone is willing or capable to afford that.

I think you're mistaken based on my personal experience. I don't have VR hardware or a VR-ready PC according to Steam's test software but XR VR is running fine in 2D mode. The caveat being I've not built a massive empire (not my thing) but it's already clear you don't need a "graphics card capable of VR" or a VR-headset. X4 is of course an unknown but that doesn't mean spank is wrong to extrapolate. Unless you were expressing uncertainty as to whether we would need VR hardware to utilise VR?

B: If you could pilot capital ships, then SETA wouldn't work when you are making a turn since it deactivates when you start pressing keys. So only when you are not really piloting, like autopilot.

This is a false dichotomy because it is perfectly possible to steer capital ships in X3:AP with a mouse while using SETA. In fact it's pretty easy because in larger ships its relatively harder to accidentally deactivate SETA by trying to mouse-turn too quickly.

[Nikola515]

This is a false dichotomy because it is perfectly possible to steer capital ships in X3:AP with a mouse while using SETA. In fact it's pretty easy because in larger ships its relatively harder to accidentally deactivate SETA by trying to mouse-turn too quickly.

Are you using any mods ? Its been a while when i played vanilla but is far as I remember you would need to turn extremely slow in order for seta not to stop ? I hate it especially when I was piloting with my Titan.... With mods we can have SETA running even when map is on For some reason joystick works much better though....

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

Are you using any mods ? Its been a while when i played vanilla but is far as I remember you would need to turn extremely slow in order for seta not to stop ? I hate it especially when I was piloting with my Titan.... With mods we can have SETA running even when map is on For some reason joystick works much better though....

It was a clean install using the default 6X SETA for the test. I'll check some more later!