Is something wrong with workforce?

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Miravlix
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Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Miravlix » Thu, 9. Jul 20, 18:19

If I don't bother with workforce, my stations work at 100%.

If I add workforce I seem to get a random chance of going from below 100% to 140%. My solar power plant has 100% workforce and the solar plants is working at 70%, so adding habitats has reduced the output by 30%

I thought that 100% was the min amount and 100% workforce would get all production modules to 140%

z1ppeh
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by z1ppeh » Thu, 9. Jul 20, 19:19

Light in the sector? I know some sectors don't have full light. You notice this in the top left of the map but last time I checked all the central sectors were 100%

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Nort The Fragrent
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Fri, 10. Jul 20, 02:47

Stations function fine without staff, No food costs to worry about, or medical.
They just run a little slower, yet still say they are at 100%.
It is running at 100%, its relative.
By introducing staff, you get shift swopping, food, Medical all in the equation. So relatively production has reduced, theoretically.

As your game advances the % becomes less relevant, as you will be drowning in cash. And thankful for a badly run station. So you can breath again.
:)

Ormac
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Ormac » Fri, 10. Jul 20, 03:41

I thought Workforce provided a 25% increase to production. 100% -> 125%.

At leat that what my Advanced Electronics Factory is showing.

Ezarkal
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Ezarkal » Fri, 10. Jul 20, 03:52

My understanding is workforce provides a bonus, although the exact bonus is module dependant. There are some variations but I think they are mostly between 115% and 150%.
So partial workforce provides only a part of that bonus, and no workforce provides no bonus.

I haven't seen a case where workforce actively decreases your production.
Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
Humans are deuterostomes, which means that when they develop in the womb the first opening they develop is the anus.
This means that at one point you were nothing but an asshole.

Some people never develop beyond this stage.

Miravlix
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Miravlix » Fri, 10. Jul 20, 16:15

Ezarkal wrote:
Fri, 10. Jul 20, 03:52
I haven't seen a case where workforce actively decreases your production.
Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
You can't be serious, you want me to tell you that you are wrong that you haven't seen a decrease in production? I'm 99.9999% sure that you didn't just lie when you said you hadn't seen it, so I wont be correcting you.


I one the other hand has had stations down to 60% when clicking on a production module after I started adding Habs to all my stations. Though I do think there is something fluffy about the %, like it drops below 100% when you tell the station to expand with more modules or maybe it's some kind of over time %, so it can drop to 0% if storage is full or something?

What I should be doing is check the prod/hour number perhaps and see if I ever produce below 100%/hour??

Imperial Good
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Imperial Good » Fri, 10. Jul 20, 18:51

This thread contains a lot of speculation that if left uncontrolled could start lies spreading and confuse players. From my extensive play experience and looking at the game data below should be facts about how workforce works.
  • All modules produce at 100% efficiency without workforce. Exception being Energy Cell Production modules which production efficiency is determined by sector light, a mechanic added in a recent patch. I am unsure how light affects Energy Cell Production workforce bonus, but an educated guess would be that it multiplies that as well.
  • Workforce will never lower the production rate of a module. With workforce all production modules will produce at least as fast as they did without workforce.
  • Production module efficiency is related to how damaged the module is. The more damaged a production module is, the lower its efficiency. Modules are automatically repaired to full health over time, repairing faster if repair drones are available.
  • The efficiency bonus from workforce and required workforce is specified on a per-module basis. Generally food related productions have huge workforce efficiency bonuses and need few workers. High-tech productions usually have low workforce efficiency bonuses and require a large workforces.
  • Workforce will always make a module more profitable, especially if food is available cheaply. This is especially the case for high-tech productions since despite the low efficiency improvement per worker, the savings on inputs used per unit output is huge due to the production chain length.
  • With sufficient free habitation workforce will grow at a rate of 1 worker per minute per race, updating roughly every 10 minutes. With Split Vendetta DLC this means a potential average growth rate of 4 workers per minute if habitation and food for all 4 races are present. This will decrease as habbitation fills up, dropping to as low as 0.1 worker per minute per race when nearly full.
  • If a station has workforce then generic crew will spawn when the station is visited. If the station is owned by the player this crew can be re-assigned to ships for free irrespective of the skill they spawned with. This is an easy way to get free 2+ star marines.

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Nort The Fragrent
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Nort The Fragrent » Fri, 10. Jul 20, 19:17

Thank you for clearing this up
:)

Miravlix
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Miravlix » Sat, 11. Jul 20, 05:21

Imperial Good wrote:
Fri, 10. Jul 20, 18:51
  • All modules produce at 100% efficiency without workforce. Exception being Energy Cell Production modules which production efficiency is determined by sector light, a mechanic added in a recent patch. I am unsure how light affects Energy Cell Production workforce bonus, but an educated guess would be that it multiplies that as well.
  • Workforce will never lower the production rate of a module. With workforce all production modules will produce at least as fast as they did without workforce.
That doesn't change that it's BLOODY confusing that my modules say they work at 60% efficiency....

Can I trust the prod/h number, is it dynamically generated or just a hard coded number?

If it's not just static number, then even while the module say it's working at below 100% it might be capped at 100% as fx. a Ecell module claims it's producing 12000/h and I think that is 100%.

Still leaves me without the workforce bonus, why is my efficiency at 75% instead of at 125% or whatever the 100% workforce bonus would be?


Efficiency (due to workforce): 70% (The number has been 60%, 75% and all over the place, but that might be because it's some number + workforce bonus and as it is a new station that got expanded, maybe I've had fluctuating workforce bonus, but that still doesn't change that the number should be 100% + Workforce bonus, not 40% + Workforce bonus or whatever is wrong with the number.)

Raptor34
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Raptor34 » Sat, 11. Jul 20, 07:00

Miravlix wrote:
Sat, 11. Jul 20, 05:21
Imperial Good wrote:
Fri, 10. Jul 20, 18:51
  • All modules produce at 100% efficiency without workforce. Exception being Energy Cell Production modules which production efficiency is determined by sector light, a mechanic added in a recent patch. I am unsure how light affects Energy Cell Production workforce bonus, but an educated guess would be that it multiplies that as well.
  • Workforce will never lower the production rate of a module. With workforce all production modules will produce at least as fast as they did without workforce.
That doesn't change that it's BLOODY confusing that my modules say they work at 60% efficiency....

Can I trust the prod/h number, is it dynamically generated or just a hard coded number?

If it's not just static number, then even while the module say it's working at below 100% it might be capped at 100% as fx. a Ecell module claims it's producing 12000/h and I think that is 100%.

Still leaves me without the workforce bonus, why is my efficiency at 75% instead of at 125% or whatever the 100% workforce bonus would be?


Efficiency (due to workforce): 70% (The number has been 60%, 75% and all over the place, but that might be because it's some number + workforce bonus and as it is a new station that got expanded, maybe I've had fluctuating workforce bonus, but that still doesn't change that the number should be 100% + Workforce bonus, not 40% + Workforce bonus or whatever is wrong with the number.)
When it gets that confusing you'll normally provide either a save or screenshots.

Scoob
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Scoob » Sat, 11. Jul 20, 16:04

Imperial Good wrote:
Fri, 10. Jul 20, 18:51
This thread contains a lot of speculation that if left uncontrolled could start lies spreading and confuse players. From my extensive play experience and looking at the game data below should be facts about how workforce works.
  • Production module efficiency is related to how damaged the module is. The more damaged a production module is, the lower its efficiency. Modules are automatically repaired to full health over time, repairing faster if repair drones are available.
There appears to be a damage threshold for when repairs will start. I have numerous lightly damaged modules over several stations, resulting an efficiency drop. However, I've NEVER seen these small amounts of damage repaired. I've even had modules starting damaged with less efficiency when they first come on-line. Yet no attacks have occurred and I've been OOS so no accidental fire should be possible.

Note: my stations regularly take damage but NOT from enemies - enemies rarely get close due to my defensive fleets. No, it's friendly fire due to the petty squabbles between trading ships that do the damage. I.e. both ARG and HOP ships delivering / buying from my station get into it and hit my station repeatedly. Occasionally - even though I'm in my own sector - fighter and Corvette groups will be involved. Just a few nights ago I had a large HOP Fighter group attacking PAR and ARG ships docking at my station - my station ended up taking hits from BOTH parties. This caused an efficiency drop on several modules, that has not been repaired.

I never played with Workforce until very recently. I really didn't see the point, but thought I'd give it a go...and I don't really see the point lol. On my largest station - producing ship-building supplies - that would genuinely benefit from even a 5% efficiency bonus, it's taking so long to get the Workforce ip - station needs about 20k workers - that in 40+ hours (excluding SETA time) the station is at 9% Workforce and I have, at most, a 2% efficiency bonus on some modules.

I want an option to be able to HIRE so workforce. I'd happily dump MILLIONS of credits to get my Workforce up sooner, but I cannot it seems.

Workforce needs a bit of a rethink as the growth-rate is silly on larger stations, I mean do X-universe denizens not want a job? lol.

Scoob.

Imperial Good
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Imperial Good » Sat, 11. Jul 20, 18:21

Scoob wrote:
Sat, 11. Jul 20, 16:04
There appears to be a damage threshold for when repairs will start. I have numerous lightly damaged modules over several stations, resulting an efficiency drop. However, I've NEVER seen these small amounts of damage repaired. I've even had modules starting damaged with less efficiency when they first come on-line. Yet no attacks have occurred and I've been OOS so no accidental fire should be possible.

Note: my stations regularly take damage but NOT from enemies - enemies rarely get close due to my defensive fleets. No, it's friendly fire due to the petty squabbles between trading ships that do the damage. I.e. both ARG and HOP ships delivering / buying from my station get into it and hit my station repeatedly. Occasionally - even though I'm in my own sector - fighter and Corvette groups will be involved. Just a few nights ago I had a large HOP Fighter group attacking PAR and ARG ships docking at my station - my station ended up taking hits from BOTH parties. This caused an efficiency drop on several modules, that has not been repaired.
Friendly fire does not occur when in low attention.

Pirates can cause this since they might go hostile and shoot the station as they fly nearby.
Scoob wrote:
Sat, 11. Jul 20, 16:04
I never played with Workforce until very recently. I really didn't see the point, but thought I'd give it a go...and I don't really see the point lol. On my largest station - producing ship-building supplies - that would genuinely benefit from even a 5% efficiency bonus, it's taking so long to get the Workforce ip - station needs about 20k workers - that in 40+ hours (excluding SETA time) the station is at 9% Workforce and I have, at most, a 2% efficiency bonus on some modules.
The solution is habitation of all races built along with production. Usually workforce of each will be 40%+ during construction and reach 80% pretty fast then after.

A lot of smaller stations helps as well. 20 stations can grow 80 workforce per minute as opposed to the 4 work force per minute of just 1 station.

Miravlix
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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Miravlix » Sun, 12. Jul 20, 13:59

Imperial Good wrote:
Sat, 11. Jul 20, 18:21
The solution is habitation of all races built along with production. Usually workforce of each will be 40%+ during construction and each 80% pretty fast then after.

A lot of smaller stations helps as well. 20 stations can grow 80 workforce per minute as opposed to the 4 work force per minute of just 1 station.
Something seem to have gone wrong with your math, sure 1 of reach races habitat, does change the workforce gain to 16 per minute, but he said 40+ hours of getting to 9%, so it would still take an insane long time.

Now the smaller station with workforce does actually have some merit in theory EXCEPT the awful UI doesn't really support having 1000 of stations and ships, if I scroll down through the 100's of entries in my list and enter the logi menu and other operations result in the UI resetting to the top of the list so I again have to scroll down... and ofcourse I had made a mistake and had to change 30 stations settings, resulting in me killing my ant farm as I went insane.

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Re: Is something wrong with workforce?

Post by Imperial Good » Sun, 12. Jul 20, 19:54

Miravlix wrote:
Sun, 12. Jul 20, 13:59
Something seem to have gone wrong with your math, sure 1 of reach races habitat, does change the workforce gain to 16 per minute, but he said 40+ hours of getting to 9%, so it would still take an insane long time.
The rate is 1 person per minute per race per station. I have built many stations and know that 40% occupancy is about the rate at which workforce gain with 4 factions meets the production speed of the individual modules. For it to be 9% or less it would require that there was either food/medicine shortages, or they did not build habitation until after building a huge number of modules.

From the statement quoted below I implied that he already built a several week construction time mega complex without habitation and was trying to retrospectively add it.
Scoob wrote:
Sat, 11. Jul 20, 16:04
I never played with Workforce until very recently. I really didn't see the point, but thought I'd give it a go...and I don't really see the point lol. On my largest station - producing ship-building supplies - that would genuinely benefit from even a 5% efficiency bonus, it's taking so long to get the Workforce ip - station needs about 20k workers - that in 40+ hours (excluding SETA time) the station is at 9% Workforce and I have, at most, a 2% efficiency bonus on some modules.
If built with habitation from the start then all the time during the construction the workforce would be growing. If the station takes 400 hours to build then 40 hours will get roughly 4% of the workforce need, if not more. This is how I came to my value of 40% since that is what I experienced in my previous playthrough when building a single mega complex with workforce growing during construction.
Miravlix wrote:
Sun, 12. Jul 20, 13:59
Now the smaller station with workforce does actually have some merit in theory EXCEPT the awful UI doesn't really support having 1000 of stations and ships, if I scroll down through the 100's of entries in my list and enter the logi menu and other operations result in the UI resetting to the top of the list so I again have to scroll down... and ofcourse I had made a mistake and had to change 30 stations settings, resulting in me killing my ant farm as I went insane.
Breaking it down into 1 station per ware type is enough to pretty much have 100% workforce bonus in most stations. Some like low tier products pretty much build at a rate of 80% occupancy or more due to how few workers they need and are needed in such small numbers that construction will finish far sooner than most stations. More demanding ones like high-tech goods will not fall much below 40% during construction and will quickly ramp up once construction winds down. 4 workers per minute is 60 workers per 15 minute build time module.

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