Egosoft, please don't make a "normal" game

This forum is the ideal place for all discussion relating to X4. You will also find additional information from developers here.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

User avatar
ElsonG
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu, 28. May 20, 05:50
x4

Re: Egosoft, please don't make a "normal" game

Post by ElsonG » Fri, 26. Jun 20, 21:03

Slashman wrote:
Tue, 23. Jun 20, 16:51
Well from my humble perspective it comes down to what Egosoft can reliably work on and get completed in a timeframe and in a budget that is acceptable to them as a business.

To answer a question further up: Rebel Galaxy Outlaw basically only has those elements to worry about. It only has story and lore to fall back on. You fly maybe 9 ships total and you certainly don't fly capital ships. It is a much simpler game to make. Which is why it can afford to have 5 developers working on it.

X4 has a multitude of races all with their own ships (and people are already willing to crucify them for not having a difference in certain ships). That is a lot more to worry about. Also Rebel Galaxy Outlaw does not have a living economy to worry about. It literally gets a free pass on that and gets to move onto other things. I would way rather them work on optimization and getting ships to behave in a rational way than I would have them work on outlining why Teladi have 8 testicles.

I would question why someone who has a vast game universe to explore and develop is so hung up RPG mechanics. Not that I'm saying those things are bad or you are a bad person for wanting them, but there are other games out there whose focus is on those things. Like Starpoint Gemini or as you pointed out Rebel Galaxy. The current game has a decent amount of missions and plots to pursue and I don't have an issue with them. It is just unrealistic to expect Egosoft to work on expanding so many aspects of what is already a vast and complex game.
I get your point, but again, i repeat: The game already have the mechanics to do so and do well, it can fit all of this other exemples inside the game without worrying about broke the game or change it for something worst, Egosoft guys need to screw really bad in doing so, wich i don't think that is even be possible with the current mechanics, it's just a matter of work more on the RPG aspect, work on lore, story and companions...
It's kind like X4 is waiting for this features to be worked.

Also, X4 is selling really well, to have an ideia, i speaking here from Brazil (this genre isn't very well apreaciated in my country, and since Brazil, and it's a really big market for games...), i already know some other folks here who play X4 here, so i belive that money probably won't be a problem anymore for Egosoft from now on...

I can see also that X series could go (in terms of gameplay and mechanics) in the direction of games like GTA (wich im my country is among the top selling games) for exemple, there are several paths that egosoft can take in making the game more imersive and iconic.

leoriq
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed, 20. Mar 13, 07:42
x3ap

Re: Egosoft, please don't make a "normal" game

Post by leoriq » Sat, 27. Jun 20, 15:04

ElsonG wrote:
Fri, 26. Jun 20, 21:03

I get your point, but again, i repeat: The game already have the mechanics to do so and do well, it can fit all of this other exemples inside the game without worrying about broke the game or change it for something worst, Egosoft guys need to screw really bad in doing so, wich i don't think that is even be possible with the current mechanics, it's just a matter of work more on the RPG aspect, work on lore, story and companions...
It's kind like X4 is waiting for this features to be worked.
Thing is, you miss your own point here. Yes, Egosoft has good mechanics implemented in X4. No, having mechanics is not enough for X4 to be the kind of game that you want. If it was enough, X4 already would be that game.

But to get proper companions, RPG, etc, Egosoft needs to work on RPG, story and companions. They tried that with X Rebirth, and failed. Trying to do the same stuff again, expecting different outcome, is not smart.

Fallout is a great game series. X is a great game series. But they are very different, are made by different people, operating on different budgets.

I'd strongly prefer X4 to be a good X, than a bad Fallout in space.

Slashman
Posts: 2206
Joined: Tue, 12. Oct 10, 03:31
x3tc

Re: Egosoft, please don't make a "normal" game

Post by Slashman » Sat, 27. Jun 20, 18:02

Also to add onto what leoriq said. Note that there are tons of games out there with the mechanics and features you mentioned. Now name one game out there with the simulation complexity of the X universe apart from an X game. I can't think of any. And even Star Citizen is player driven and instanced.

But to demonstrate that money is still a huge factor lets look at the encyclopedia. People have been pointing out missing flavor text and other things in it since the game launched. Egosoft has still not totally addressed that because it is something that would take a lot of time and effort to sit down and debug and they need all their hands on deck for the other features of the game. So Egosoft are not rolling in cash. Sure their game may be selling, but I do not think that means they have a huge floating tub of disposable income to dedicate to things that are not core X.
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

User avatar
ElsonG
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu, 28. May 20, 05:50
x4

Re: Egosoft, please don't make a "normal" game

Post by ElsonG » Wed, 1. Jul 20, 03:18

Slashman wrote:
Sat, 27. Jun 20, 18:02
Also to add onto what leoriq said. Note that there are tons of games out there with the mechanics and features you mentioned. Now name one game out there with the simulation complexity of the X universe apart from an X game. I can't think of any. And even Star Citizen is player driven and instanced.

But to demonstrate that money is still a huge factor lets look at the encyclopedia. People have been pointing out missing flavor text and other things in it since the game launched. Egosoft has still not totally addressed that because it is something that would take a lot of time and effort to sit down and debug and they need all their hands on deck for the other features of the game. So Egosoft are not rolling in cash. Sure their game may be selling, but I do not think that means they have a huge floating tub of disposable income to dedicate to things that are not core X.
You are probably right...
Tough i do think that the game needs a lot of work in several areas, i don't think the game should neglect this aspect of the game, in favor to add more "simpler commands", things that usually are only to made the game more easy...
My biggest problem with X4 right now, is performace issues, i can wait for the RPG aspects, but the performace issues are pilling up here, some things for exemple, like go to HQ that is the laggiest place in the galaxy to research engines in a racing quest... i call this unecessary punishmentand! But guess what? I like it! Is one of the few things that arent repetitive in the game! Got it? I can bare all this smaller issues, if theres a reason to this, like, advance in the story even if is just some conversation with the only unique character in the whole game (all others are clones).
I not asking for much here, only some more interesting interactions will do the job.

User avatar
ElsonG
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu, 28. May 20, 05:50
x4

Re: Egosoft, please don't make a "normal" game

Post by ElsonG » Wed, 1. Jul 20, 03:48

leoriq wrote:
Sat, 27. Jun 20, 15:04
ElsonG wrote:
Fri, 26. Jun 20, 21:03

I get your point, but again, i repeat: The game already have the mechanics to do so and do well, it can fit all of this other exemples inside the game without worrying about broke the game or change it for something worst, Egosoft guys need to screw really bad in doing so, wich i don't think that is even be possible with the current mechanics, it's just a matter of work more on the RPG aspect, work on lore, story and companions...
It's kind like X4 is waiting for this features to be worked.
Thing is, you miss your own point here. Yes, Egosoft has good mechanics implemented in X4. No, having mechanics is not enough for X4 to be the kind of game that you want. If it was enough, X4 already would be that game.

But to get proper companions, RPG, etc, Egosoft needs to work on RPG, story and companions. They tried that with X Rebirth, and failed. Trying to do the same stuff again, expecting different outcome, is not smart.

Fallout is a great game series. X is a great game series. But they are very different, are made by different people, operating on different budgets.

I'd strongly prefer X4 to be a good X, than a bad Fallout in space.
For anything, the first try has always a high chance to fail, especially if it is something that nobady ever try before!
Does this mean it can't be done?
You give up on the first try?
I starting to notice that for some guys, get rid of all elements of RPG in this game will be better than improve them ( i'm not saying that this is your case)...
To be honest, i never played X-R, like i said before, i'm new to X-Series, but maybe the problem with X-R isn't the game itself, but the marketing of it, i never heard before X4 of any game from the series, i never played any before this one so i can't say how good or bad it is, but i really enjoy the fact that as the player, i can just land on a station and walk around, the biggest problem is that is always the same thing, this really has no point at all, even in RGO you can go to an station and even if you can really walk around, you still has way more interaction and more imersed in that place than in X4!
What is the problem of having some unique characters and folks to talk around in the game? To make the stations more alive? You can talk with everybody in the game, but whats is the point of this if after talking with one, you talk with them all?
If this is the case, what really is the point to have all this in game? You can do all this things from inside you very ship, so why bother?
I tell you why... Egosoft guys want to implement this system, maybe they aren't able to do now, but they will do eventually, if not in X4, they will do it in a next game! So if you are one of those who don't like the idea of this in a game, well get used to it, because this probably is the future of the series!
After all, a perfect simulation, needs to be perfect in all it's aspects.

leoriq
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed, 20. Mar 13, 07:42
x3ap

Re: Egosoft, please don't make a "normal" game

Post by leoriq » Wed, 1. Jul 20, 08:27

ElsonG wrote:
Wed, 1. Jul 20, 03:48
For anything, the first try has always a high chance to fail, especially if it is something that nobady ever try before!
Does this mean it can't be done?
You give up on the first try?
I starting to notice that for some guys, get rid of all elements of RPG in this game will be better than improve them ( i'm not saying that this is your case)...
To be honest, i never played X-R, like i said before, i'm new to X-Series, but maybe the problem with X-R isn't the game itself, but the marketing of it, i never heard before X4 of any game from the series, i never played any before this one so i can't say how good or bad it is, but i really enjoy the fact that as the player, i can just land on a station and walk around, the biggest problem is that is always the same thing, this really has no point at all, even in RGO you can go to an station and even if you can really walk around, you still has way more interaction and more imersed in that place than in X4!
What is the problem of having some unique characters and folks to talk around in the game? To make the stations more alive? You can talk with everybody in the game, but whats is the point of this if after talking with one, you talk with them all?
If this is the case, what really is the point to have all this in game? You can do all this things from inside you very ship, so why bother?
I tell you why... Egosoft guys want to implement this system, maybe they aren't able to do now, but they will do eventually, if not in X4, they will do it in a next game! So if you are one of those who don't like the idea of this in a game, well get used to it, because this probably is the future of the series!
After all, a perfect simulation, needs to be perfect in all it's aspects.
You say "first try", "don't just give up", but you haven't played any prior X games. Well I'll tell you that X4 is the second try on bringing the legs to X series, and it's much better than the first one. And the reason for that is simple - Egosoft reduced the amount of walking, reduced the amount of interaction, reduced the density of unique characters, made the insides of stations smaller.

And then you replace my position with your imaginary "get rid of RPG elements" and "stay inside the ship" and argue not with what I said, but with what you put in my mouth. That will not work. I said from the start and repeat it now:
The amount of legwork in X4 is well-balanced and should not be increased.
Nor should it be decreased, because it is, again, well-balanced.

And about you telling me what Egosoft really wants - you are just attributing your own fantasies to be sourcing from Egosoft. That will not work either. You know nothing of the history of X series, but you speak about its future so brazenly. Based on what? Your imagination? Egosoft devs have imagination of their own, and it looks to me better than yours.
So if you are one of those who don't like the idea of X4 not being what you want, well get used to it, because this definitely is the future of the series.
After all, I've played previous X games, and got experience to back up my words.

Post Reply

Return to “X4: Foundations”