Construction ship suggestion

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Falcrack
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Construction ship suggestion

Post by Falcrack » Sun, 10. Feb 19, 06:54

Here are a couple of ideas I had which might improve the role of construction ships:

1. You can hire multiple constructions ships to build your stations. If you are building a huge complex, it might be beneficial to hire multiple construction vessels.
2. In addition to the initial hiring fee, each module that you add that a construction ships completes, it charges extra, based on the amount of time it takes to complete the module.
3. Your own construction ships can be hired out by NPCs to work on their stations, for a similar amount of money.

These suggestions would help to get our enormous complexes built in a more reasonable time frame. In addition, it gives more reason for the player to own their own construction ship, as if there is a per module charge, it can quickly get very expensive hiring out NPC construction ships, especially if your complex is very large. It could be balanced such that for "mega complexes" of 20 or more modules, it would make more economic sense to have your own construction ship rather than hire out work to NPCs.

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Baconnaise
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Re: Construction ship suggestion

Post by Baconnaise » Sun, 10. Feb 19, 09:08

Yea something like that or a higher fee for lower construction time instead. They can even put it on a slider say adding construct drones every 25-50 is an extra 5-10mil whatever. I'd also like to see improvements to the station build planner. Large complexes are too laggy. Adding turrets and shields is also laggy. There has to be a better way to add these extras. Adding a checkbox or something to add a preset or player saved choice of turrets and shields would be ideal. It would also be grand if the color or an icon shows that extras are already added to a module. The color changes to green on the list when it's built I think but it's very hit or miss (buggy). The list resets and you have scroll and make sure you know where you are at. Game performance is an issue as well with large complexes. If I build small and wide instead eventually it's just as bad too.

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Roger L.S. Griffiths
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Re: Construction ship suggestion

Post by Roger L.S. Griffiths » Sun, 10. Feb 19, 13:04

Not sure suggestion #1 would be feasible but I like the idea. However, I think

WRT suggestion #2, I would say make it a rental fee - the longer they are on site the more they cost regardless of whether they are building or held up due to lack of resources. The rent would come out of the build budget and if the budget is exhausted before construction is complete then the builder ship leaves. Player builders would of course be free to the player.

WRT suggestion #3, I think that is what station build missions should have been from day one - the NPC faction should specify the plan they want to build (exact plan - not module minimums) and where, the player then gets offered a fixed fee based on that plan and notional time to complete. The current request for player investment type station missions could still exist but the pay-outs should probably be lower.
Roger (aka [SRK] Mr^Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

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"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

Falcrack
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Re: Construction ship suggestion

Post by Falcrack » Sun, 10. Feb 19, 17:24

Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Sun, 10. Feb 19, 13:04
Not sure suggestion #1 would be feasible but I like the idea.
As far as suggestion 1, multiple construction ships per station, what it would involve is simply that if there are multiple modules being constructed, the first construction ship would work on the first module in the queue, while the next construction ship would simultaneously be working on the next module in the queue, and so forth. In the plan build screen, the "assign construction ships" button would not be greyed out after hiring the first one, so you could continue to hire as many as you want. In addition, there would be a list of construction ships in that screen which are already assigned to be building your station.

As far as a cost per module goes, just as we have a slider to cover the station budget for purchasing wares to construct the station, as each construction module is completed by a construction ship, the fee from the construction ship for that module is deducted. Alternatively, they could simply charge a fee for each minute they are actively working on construction, and will leave after 30 minutes if construction is stalled out due to lack of wares.

Currently, I have a massive complex, which I made a major overhaul to, destroying and replacing ~20 modules. The cost to me, so far, is nothing (well, 50,000 credits to hire the initial construction ship), because the modules I scrapped contributed more in terms of construction wares to the build storage than the new modules I replaced them with. With this new system I proposed, making such drastic changes would (and should) take a lot of money because it is a significant amount of work for the construction ship to perform. It would add a significant incentive to having my own construction ship, which is sorely lacking in the current game.

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Roger L.S. Griffiths
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Re: Construction ship suggestion

Post by Roger L.S. Griffiths » Sun, 10. Feb 19, 18:24

Falcrack wrote:
Sun, 10. Feb 19, 17:24
Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:
Sun, 10. Feb 19, 13:04
Not sure suggestion #1 would be feasible but I like the idea.
As far as suggestion 1, multiple construction ships per station, what it would involve is simply that if there are multiple modules being constructed, the first construction ship would work on the first module in the queue, while the next construction ship would simultaneously be working on the next module in the queue, and so forth. In the plan build screen, the "assign construction ships" button would not be greyed out after hiring the first one, so you could continue to hire as many as you want. In addition, there would be a list of construction ships in that screen which are already assigned to be building your station.
My feasibility comment is more a question of whether Egosoft's implementation will allow for it - which is where my doubt comes in.
Falcrack wrote:
Sun, 10. Feb 19, 17:24
As far as a cost per module goes, just as we have a slider to cover the station budget for purchasing wares to construct the station, as each construction module is completed by a construction ship, the fee from the construction ship for that module is deducted. Alternatively, they could simply charge a fee for each minute they are actively working on construction, and will leave after 30 minutes if construction is stalled out due to lack of wares.
I prefer the credits/hr of assignment approach - would require less work to implement in theory and would make the benefit of using your own builder ships more prominent (especially when managing multiple build projects).
Falcrack wrote:
Sun, 10. Feb 19, 17:24
Currently, I have a massive complex, which I made a major overhaul to, destroying and replacing ~20 modules. The cost to me, so far, is nothing (well, 50,000 credits to hire the initial construction ship), because the modules I scrapped contributed more in terms of construction wares to the build storage than the new modules I replaced them with. With this new system I proposed, making such drastic changes would (and should) take a lot of money because it is a significant amount of work for the construction ship to perform. It would add a significant incentive to having my own construction ship, which is sorely lacking in the current game.
Deconstruction happens without a construction ship's involvement based on my own experience. I tend to avoid using the AI builders because they are not always easy to find close to my preferred build sites but on the rare occassions I have used them I would say the cost of their involvement is too low, but given the name of the game is essentially to rebuild civilisation I guess it is perhaps justified.

I have several (>10) construction sites scattered around the previously unclaimed sectors (now owned by me) and have 6 builder ships working on different projects. The ability to accelerate production of one project by using multiple build ships working on different modules sounds good in theory but I do not believe it is entirely necessary. It can be bad enough scrounging up materials for one project with-in a reasonable time window, if build times were accelerated by the use of multiple builders on a single project I can see material availability becoming an even greater issue.

Some already complain about at least some shipyards or wharfs being short on materials (similar material demands for both station and ship building) and the idea of being able to use multiple build craft could make matters worse in at least some cases.
Roger (aka [SRK] Mr^Rabbit)

"Understanding is a three edged sword... your side, their side... and the Truth!" - J.J. Sheriden, Babylon 5 S4E6 T28:55

"May god stand between you and harm in all the dark places you must walk." - Ancient Egyption Proverb

"When eating an elephant take one bite at a time" - Creighton Abrams

shealladh
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Re: Construction ship suggestion

Post by shealladh » Mon, 11. Feb 19, 09:52

I think there should be extra "helper" ships that can be apart of the hired process to speed the process. Maybe something like M sized Cranes, drones for materials and so on, with maybe other options >INSERT< ideas
Just throwing that out there.

At the beginning there are a limited number of constructors, so I went looking at other parts of the game first.
So just like the resupply ships coming, there should be other enhancements as well.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
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Re: Construction ship suggestion

Post by ZaphodBeeblebrox » Mon, 11. Feb 19, 12:37

In previous games ships like the Elephant could also perform well as small carriers. Useful in picking up captured fighters for repair or sale.
That role has now disappeared. Builders really only have a single purpose. Their role can also be quite dangerous. A number have been destroyed
whilst building some of my stations.

"Weird logic" in the supply of goods to the builder. Rival faction traders will turn up and start firing on the builder.
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