Can we see actual gameplay?

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plynak
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by plynak » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 09:13

I was really hoping Egosoft would learn from the Rebirth fiasco. But it does not seem to be the case. A player posts a relevant request which many others shares and what he gets instead? He is immediately attacked by Egofanboys and even moderators.
Strange behavior from a company that should do anything possible to get players trust back. Not to mention that every time a company refuses to show any actual gameplay videos it has something to hide (e.g. ME Andromeda). It is a simple fact that has been proven time and again. It is also a fact that gameplay videos prior relase are becoming a standard. I could see gameplay from AC Odyssey a month before relase. And as I liked what I saw, I did not have a problem to order the game.
The most strange thing is that to fullfill this request does not require anything special, just put someone to a PC and let him record an hour of gameplay. From the main menu, through starting a new game, flying around, doing some missions and maybe some small upgrades to ship. Nothing more, nothing less. And if everyone is busy, then ask some tester to do it. Wait, there are testers, right?
But it seems Egosoft would rather face Steam refunds than spend one hour of reocrding. Well, it is their choice. My choice is to keep my wallet closed.
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AleksMain
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by AleksMain » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 11:29

plynak wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 09:13
I was really hoping Egosoft would learn from the Rebirth fiasco. But it does not seem to be the case. A player posts a relevant request which many others shares and what he gets instead? He is immediately attacked by Egofanboys and even moderators.
Strange behavior from a company that should do anything possible to get players trust back. Not to mention that every time a company refuses to show any actual gameplay videos it has something to hide (e.g. ME Andromeda). It is a simple fact that has been proven time and again. It is also a fact that gameplay videos prior relase are becoming a standard. I could see gameplay from AC Odyssey a month before relase. And as I liked what I saw, I did not have a problem to order the game.
The most strange thing is that to fullfill this request does not require anything special, just put someone to a PC and let him record an hour of gameplay. From the main menu, through starting a new game, flying around, doing some missions and maybe some small upgrades to ship. Nothing more, nothing less. And if everyone is busy, then ask some tester to do it. Wait, there are testers, right?
But it seems Egosoft would rather face Steam refunds than spend one hour of reocrding. Well, it is their choice. My choice is to keep my wallet closed.
Please, read some answers from Egosoft and try to understand them:
CBJ wrote:
Wed, 7. Nov 18, 02:42
...
Here we go again. No, we are not being secretive, and especially not "this time around". We have talked about, and shown, far more about this game than we have ever done with any previous game, and we continue to do what we can, when we can. However, as has been explained on several occasions, the reason you're not seeing new information now is that we are a small team, and right now we're in full "crunch mode" doing all the things that have to be done in the last few weeks before release. Repeatedly saying that we ought to be doing X or Y because some other larger company does it isn't going to change that, nor is there a "lesson" that can be learnt that will magically free up resources to create, or even just review and edit, appropriate new material to show people. We would love to be able to do and show more, because we are not as oblivious to the benefits of marketing as some people seem to think, but we simply don't have that luxury.
Xenon_Slayer wrote:
Wed, 7. Nov 18, 16:09
... I expect we'll be answering some of these questions closer to release (although we won't want to spoil anything special).
CBJ wrote:
Sun, 4. Nov 18, 22:16
As a potential customer, you are entitled to be as cautious as you like. Nobody, least of all us, has a problem with that. But this thread has gone from reasonable caution to trying to claim that there's an information blackout, which is patently and demonstrably false. Not to mention people making up reasons why there's not as much new information forthcoming at the moment, when the reasons have been clearly stated.

barszcz
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by barszcz » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 11:39

I really love how people are convinced that they know what Ego should or should not do.

What way of promoting the game should Ego choose is up to them, and I am sure that they are 100% aware of pros and cons. No need to remind them of XR too (for maybe 2763982th time).
The decision to buy the game or not is, however, entirely ours and no one forces us to do it now. I am sure that gameplay videos will be available after release.

Summing up, I would welcome any gameplay video but in no way I am going to demand it from Egosoft.
Also remember that a video about PHQ was promised to us before release, so we should all keep our fingers crossed :)
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic - Arthur C. Clarke

DavidGW
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by DavidGW » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 13:52

barszcz wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 11:39
Also remember that a video about PHQ was promised to us before release, so we should all keep our fingers crossed :)
If you really want a video outlining the Player HQ, maybe you should record a few shots of your computer desk? I know mine is my player HQ...

Dreez
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by Dreez » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 14:51

The only thing i'm hoping for is that Egosoft learned from X:R and doesn't make the same mistake twice.
It's getting closer now, only 12? days left for release and eventho i haven't pre-ordered and i don't have any expectations,
i'm really really hoping that Egosoft hits this one out of the park, and Foundations becomes a huge hit with great reviews.

But that remains to be seen. I'm still missing my worty successor of X3:Terran Conflict - best 4X game ever made (sofar ).
Of all the things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

DaMuncha
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by DaMuncha » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 14:57

DavidGW wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 13:52
barszcz wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 11:39
Also remember that a video about PHQ was promised to us before release, so we should all keep our fingers crossed :)
If you really want a video outlining the Player HQ, maybe you should record a few shots of your computer desk? I know mine is my player HQ...
Well ok then how about this
https://imgur.com/a/GhaXw16

I dont think it counts tho.

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LittleBird
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by LittleBird » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 14:58

Dreez wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 14:51
It's getting closer now, only 12? days left for release
Watch out! You risk a heart attack by the devs.
22 Days are left. Release is Nov. 30.
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Alle Klarheiten beseitigt!

nalim27
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by nalim27 » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 17:56

LittleBird wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 14:58
Dreez wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 14:51
It's getting closer now, only 12? days left for release
Watch out! You risk a heart attack by the devs.
22 Days are left. Release is Nov. 30.
Exactly. He probably swapped release date with Battlefield 5 (20 Nov.)

So only 3 weeks from now .... it will be SOON (tm) :-)
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ZaldronTheSage
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by ZaldronTheSage » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 18:41

Ultimately it is the company who provides a product, and a customer who decides to purchase the product based on their views. This is the same for shoes, clothing, automobiles and even space rockets.

If you do not like what a company is doing, then carry on. While it may be nice for more videos, there will never be 100% fulfillment for every potential or current customer as everyone has different standards and tastes. We are human after all.
"Since, in the long run, every planetary civilization will be endangered by impacts from space, every surviving civilization is obliged to become spacefaring--not because of exploratory or romantic zeal, but for the most practical reason imaginable: staying alive... If our long-term survival is at stake, we have a basic responsibility to our species to venture to other worlds."
Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot, 1994

csaba
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by csaba » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 19:25

To clarify a few things about XR release:

- It was on a new engine so devs had little experience at the time compared to now
- The game was tested on a small number of computers as Egosoft is a small company this was the main cause of the performance issues
- Most refunds were claimed because of the performance issues
- The game got 20+ patches in the first 2 months
- XR VR was released on the Vulkan engine which X4 uses and that didn't have issues afaik (I don't have a VR set)


How this translates to this whole topic:
- If the devs release a gameplay video (as they did in the past year 3 times) you cannot check for performance issues since it will be on the PC they use and know
- No sane Devs will show bugs/glitches connected to the story or mechanics on screen. You can't check for those in a released gameplay video
- The only time they could have reliably shown bugs or glitches is at a live show which they skipped this year. We can do nothing about this anymore since release is around the corner. That could have also been a special dev version as well like NMS had with way more detailed creatures in their show version than in the actual game (Funnily enough some glitches were caught there on camera and people still bought the game) However I can totally understand the people who pointed to this lack of presentation.

Taking all these into account anyone skeptical here will(should) stay the same regardless if they put a 20 hour gameplay video on Youtube or not.

I bought the CE while knowing full well what to expect from an X game at launch. Anyone else who is just a little bit skeptical I ADVISE TO STAY AWAY from the game until us "Egosoft fanboys" (lol) post our experiences.

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jasonbarron
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by jasonbarron » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 19:41

DaMuncha wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 14:57
DavidGW wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 13:52
barszcz wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 11:39
Also remember that a video about PHQ was promised to us before release, so we should all keep our fingers crossed :)
If you really want a video outlining the Player HQ, maybe you should record a few shots of your computer desk? I know mine is my player HQ...
Well ok then how about this
https://imgur.com/a/GhaXw16

I dont think it counts tho.
Eww, there are used tissues crumpled on your desk (please God stop me from thinking about how they were used!). For crying out loud, there was an empty roll of toilet paper. Muncha, you should probably police that up before you let us view the inner sanctum of your little bachelor pad :lol:
Ayn Rand was correct.

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LittleBird
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by LittleBird » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 20:52

csaba wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 19:25
To clarify a few things about XR release:

- Most refunds were claimed because of the performance issues
- The game got 20+ patches in the first 2 months

How this translates to this whole topic:
- If the devs release a gameplay video (as they did in the past year 3 times) you cannot check for performance issues since it will be on the PC they use and know
I shortened it to highlight this point

And there you make a logical mistake.
Most refunds are based on the performance issues and bugs because they are the first problems you notice in a game. If it is technically unplayable you will never see other issues.
So you have to ask: Assumed X:Rebirth had zero performance issues and was bug free, would people have refunded it because of other things?
And there is a lot. Just remember what Egosoft patched gameplay wise and you have your answer.

So your argument that video material can not show performance issues and bugs is hardly relevant.
Video material is often polished. That is common sense. So nobody expects discovering bugs and glitches.

But refusing to show more video material has the feeling the game could be buggy.
Refusing to show game mechanics has the feeling they are poorly designed like in X-Rebirth (*cough* Minigames and cleptomania on stations *cough*)
And that is because the amount of information material on X-Rebirth was also low.
People now see similarities to the disastrous X-Rebirth launch.

Showing more video material could reduce such concerns even if everybody knows the material is hand-picked.

Understand this post as an explanation not a demand on Egosoft
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Alle Klarheiten beseitigt!

csaba
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by csaba » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 21:27

LittleBird wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 20:52
csaba wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 19:25
To clarify a few things about XR release:

- Most refunds were claimed because of the performance issues
- The game got 20+ patches in the first 2 months

How this translates to this whole topic:
- If the devs release a gameplay video (as they did in the past year 3 times) you cannot check for performance issues since it will be on the PC they use and know
I shortened it to highlight this point

And there you make a logical mistake.
Most refunds are based on the performance issues and bugs because they are the first problems you notice in a game. If it is technically unplayable you will never see other issues.
So you have to ask: Assumed X:Rebirth had zero performance issues and was bug free, would people have refunded it because of other things?
And there is a lot. Just remember what Egosoft patched gameplay wise and you have your answer.

Understand this post as an explanation not a demand on Egosoft
- No they couldn't cause by design you need to play more than 2 hours to face most of those bugs/bad game mechanics at which point your steam refund will likely be voided.

- Also because of this design the Devs cannot show every aspect of gameplay cause it would be literally a several hour long video. They could ofc edit in the "important" stuff. However what's "important" is subjective.

-For example The sliders (which I hate btw) were not (or not properly) shown pre-XR launch. The Devs deemed it unnecessary to show, they obviously didn't think about it much at the time since they didn't change the damned thing in 3 years so they can still care less.

-For example they can edit out the travel time between the stations in a video for good reasons (don't want to spoil every ship pre launch) and there could be a dozen things happening there that could annoy someone while the ones doing the video bat no eye to it, find it not important enough to show

- Gameplay in a game like X4 is an evolving thing based on FEEDBACK. You can't give proper feedback unless you play the game. You can only make ASSUMPTIONS on a video. There were plenty of SUGGESTIONS (from experience with previous games )on this forum which the Developers probably read even if only the title

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LittleBird
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by LittleBird » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 23:17

csaba wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 21:27
- No they couldn't cause by design you need to play more than 2 hours to face most of those bugs/bad game mechanics at which point your steam refund will likely be voided.
You face the awfull minigames in your first hour for sure. You face the tedious i-hunting on stations, your stupid personal inventory in stations and you face all... two useless airvents.
csaba wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 21:27
- Also because of this design the Devs cannot show every aspect of gameplay cause it would be literally a several hour long video. They could ofc edit in the "important" stuff. However what's "important" is subjective.
Nobody is asking for a presentation of everything.
csaba wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 21:27
- Gameplay in a game like X4 is an evolving thing based on FEEDBACK. You can't give proper feedback unless you play the game. You can only make ASSUMPTIONS on a video. There were plenty of SUGGESTIONS (from experience with previous games )on this forum which the Developers probably read even if only the title
Showing the mechanics is also gameplay.
We saw the new map, a tiny bit of station building and ship equipment... that's it!

Now check X-Rebirth. Videos that explained the mechanics 2 months before release.
Honestly I can't believe it. Actually we had more shown of the game from X-Rebirth than X4! :o
I should stop digging further.
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Alle Klarheiten beseitigt!

csaba
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Re: Can we see actual gameplay?

Post by csaba » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 23:50

LittleBird wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 23:17
csaba wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 21:27
- No they couldn't cause by design you need to play more than 2 hours to face most of those bugs/bad game mechanics at which point your steam refund will likely be voided.
You face the awfull minigames in your first hour for sure. You face the tedious i-hunting on stations, your stupid personal inventory in stations and you face all... two useless airvents.
No you don't refund in that case in an Hour. I hated the sliders but I just avoided them until I realized they are necessary for getting upgrades for your NPCs which came way later. I probably didn't open my inventory for hours since there was no need for it. Vents I only did like once or twice and left the station. Other complaints were about the single ship being the Skunk but that was communicated a lot. The lazy capital ship "bridge" designs weren't apparent until you got your second Cap ship and realized it's the same damn docking area.

LittleBird wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 23:17
csaba wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 21:27
- Gameplay in a game like X4 is an evolving thing based on FEEDBACK. You can't give proper feedback unless you play the game. You can only make ASSUMPTIONS on a video. There were plenty of SUGGESTIONS (from experience with previous games )on this forum which the Developers probably read even if only the title
Showing the mechanics is also gameplay.
We saw the new map, a tiny bit of station building and ship equipment... that's it!
plus travel mode, the majority of ship classes, a bunch of walking around on docks, we saw the trading, there is screenshot here on the forums on the ship buying screen, boosting, FA off (or decoupled for SC players), adapting flight controls, SETA, a carrier launching fighters, a bunch of AI built stations, we know there are 3 main races, we know about 2 starting scenarios, we know about 2 paranid factions fighting to the death, Accelerators-Highways, we know how travel will be between sectors.

LittleBird wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 23:17
Now check X-Rebirth. Videos that explained the mechanics 2 months before release.
Honestly I can't believe it. Actually we had more shown of the game from X-Rebirth than X4! :o
I Call BS. There was 1 25 minute video and a few 2-5 minutes ones for XR, X4 had so far 3 60+ minutes ones, 2 trailers +one extra gameplay video.
Please point out 1 thing pre launch XR videous showed X4 didn't show so far.

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