Some honest and harsh thoughts on VR implementation

Feedback and information for X Rebirth VR Edition

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

Post Reply
soundslikerust
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon, 5. Jan 15, 06:43
x3ap

Some honest and harsh thoughts on VR implementation

Post by soundslikerust » Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45

Keyboard/mouse controls are converted to VR controls 1:1. Left hand is your keyboard and right hand is your mouse - like in original. Lazy implemented VR CONTROL nightmare.

*There are 3 different menus. One main menu and two different radial ones. Always misleading which one to use.

*Is there any logical explanation why ship stops responding when i have right side window open? I mean i'm in virtual environment, i want to fly and read at same time just turn my head and that's it. It's lazy converted from original game with wrong assumption i can't turn my head....

*Radial menus are controlled by mouse (yes it's your arm!) so you turn on one of radial menus in front of you with left hand and pinpoint options with second hand coz it's not worth using your finger on one of the best touchpad devices outhere.. or even model this ♥♥♥♥ing radial menu to controller you are holding in your hand and use your finger on it...

*Controllers are not modelled and collored to provide you info what button does what. Devs didn't see Nvidia VR funhouse, solus project or great google tiltbrush - Lazy VR

*game is unplayable on stations, walking movement is the WORST i've seen in VR so far, that's quite accomplishment congrats to dev...

*doors, how do i open or interact with anything, i didn't found yet but i'll keep trying

*highway tunnels - ship bounces in them so fast it's impossible to react with your hand controller so fast, ship react's to hand movement like a brick. I can't use highways so game is unplayable like this

*right menu window - so many times i clicked or touched something on first or second controller while in dogfight and this right hand widow shows up. I dont see it coz it's 90 degrees right of my head but ship stops reacting to my controls. When i want to close this damn window i have to twist ma whole ♥♥♥♥ing arm 90 degrees and click small BACk button in lower right corner. Damn this VR interface is So BAD it's quite funny somentimes :)

*please tell me how do i turn my head left rght when on station?? touch is unresponsive, i have to use mouse which is even worse. Who tested this ?

*interface development is so bad even simple things like opening and closing main menu with the same button doesn't work, ehh..

TLDR It's so ♥♥♥♥ing great someone is trying to make this kind of game in VR. If we have to pay sacond time for the same game just for you to bring in new engine for future games (which we will pay again for) it's fine - just please stop being LAZY

User avatar
The Q
Pancake Award Winner 2017
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri, 20. Nov 09, 22:02

Post by The Q » Sat, 9. Dec 17, 18:53

Trying to answer some questions / giving some feedback on the Feedback:

- The game has been specifically designed to be used with the HTC Vive + Vive Wand controllers or Oculus and Oculus Touch Controllers in mind. Mouse controls were initially not part of the VR game, but were added by popular demand. So this is really far from lazy on the developers side. Quite the opposite.

- To keep your ship's speed, even if you have menus open, there should be a specific setting called "Maintain speed in menus" see Options -> Settings -> Game Settings (I think it was).

- Radial Menus can be controlled by other Devices, too. See the X Rebirth VR Edition Controls Explained video for an introduction to the different controls.

- Controller avatars are displayed in the game. If you're running the Oculus version on Steam make sure to start the Oculus Store, too. See the answer to question 2 of the XR VR FAQ.

- Station gameplay is rather limited in the VR Edition. You can change the turning speed on platforms, if that's your problem (I'm afraid I don't have the exact option's location at hand; Options -> Controls -> Platform Movement would be my guess though).

- Doors are closed by default. There's a specific mission, which can be found around stations, to open them up for a limited time.

- The highway problem sounds a bit like an old mouse control problem, which could be worked around by pressing the spacebar. But I'm not sure what it is exactly that you're seeing here.

- In the normal X Rebirth, there's an option called "Menus" (I think) under the Options -> Game Settings to change the right hand menu to the HUD menu. I'm not sure if this is available in XR VR too, but it's worth a check.

I suggest having a look through the X Rebirth VR Manual to learn about the basic XR VR controls and options.
Morkonan, Emperor of the Unaffiliated Territories of the Principality of OFF-TOPIC, wrote:I have come to answer your questions! The answers are "Yes" and "Probably" as well as "No" and "Maybe", but I'm not sure in which order they should be given.
xkcd: Duty calls

soundslikerust
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon, 5. Jan 15, 06:43
x3ap

Post by soundslikerust » Sat, 9. Dec 17, 20:01

1. The point is the game was not designed to use it with HTC/Ocullus controllers. It's the same interface nothing has changed.

2. How do i use text box located over the map while in VR?

3. How do i scroll in or scroll out a map turned from main menu, how do i move this map - is there some mapping or do i use mouse and scrollwheel?

4. Why doors are closed?

5. VR controllers are the most sophisticated controlers out there Why do i have to pinpoint with my arm a scroll bar and move whole arm to SCROLL TEXT it's unbelievable...

6. "To keep your ship's speed, even if you have menus open, there should be a specific setting called "Maintain speed in menus" see Options -> Settings -> Game Settings "- it does not work i cant steer the ship while right panel is open

7. why do i have to track those pesky little buttons with my arm in right window? Like briefing buttons etc. Small change like click sensitive controller modelled with graphic options around it (look at google tiltbrush )would make my arm healthier

8. How do i press spacebar while in VR to work around highway problem? what if i accidentally slap my dog in the face? Or my neighbor, or his wife?

Do you even OWN VR headset?

ARE YOU KIDDING?


This is lazy 1 to 1 mouse to controller conversion. There is no change in interface regarding i dont see keyboard and mouse. I've seen lot's of VR bad products but this is unplayable. Not even proper controller mappings or like you said "platform movement settings" are not set?

I love this game why dont you care about fundamental quality of this game?
Last edited by soundslikerust on Sat, 9. Dec 17, 21:09, edited 9 times in total.

Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 20521
Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
x4

Post by Alan Phipps » Sat, 9. Dec 17, 20:28

Comment on the game and relevant discussions and not about other posters OR the devs thanks.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

User avatar
Franc Kaos
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri, 14. Jul 17, 12:12

Post by Franc Kaos » Sun, 10. Dec 17, 07:31

I agree about the menu interface, the radial implementation should have been expanded and improved on to be the main menu as it works really well in VR (and looks good), and the side bar menu taken out back and shot.

As for the Touch implementation I thought it was converted amazingly well, even teaching me about the capacitive surfaces I was unaware was even on them, tho' I found fighting with them pretty difficult but for just flying the ship and calling up the radial menus it was pretty intuitive.

Not played for a while but is the 90 <degree> to your right main menu still a thing? that made me give up as it was causing major neck ache. Thing was, there was a perfectly good virtual screen directly in front of you on the station platforms, would've worked fine on the ship (even as just an option).

User avatar
ezra-r
Posts: 3142
Joined: Fri, 14. Oct 05, 21:04
x4

Post by ezra-r » Mon, 11. Dec 17, 21:13

6. "To keep your ship's speed, even if you have menus open, there should be a specific setting called "Maintain speed in menus" see Options -> Settings -> Game Settings "- it does not work i cant steer the ship while right panel is open
Where does it say you should? In menus you can just "interact with menus", that game option just lets your ship keep going forward instead of stopping when you open a menu.

soundslikerust
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon, 5. Jan 15, 06:43
x3ap

Post by soundslikerust » Tue, 12. Dec 17, 13:06

ezra-r wrote:
6. "To keep your ship's speed, even if you have menus open, there should be a specific setting called "Maintain speed in menus" see Options -> Settings -> Game Settings "- it does not work i cant steer the ship while right panel is open
Where does it say you should? In menus you can just "interact with menus", that game option just lets your ship keep going forward instead of stopping when you open a menu.
Read the context of conversation you joined.
Here i asked about it (I'm talking about VR so if you don't know how those panels work i.e. in Elite Dangerous in VR i can't explain it to you)

mlonghorn
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon, 7. Aug 17, 20:01

Post by mlonghorn » Mon, 18. Dec 17, 18:09

While I agree with most of your points I do not see the need of being harsh. VR development is a new thing, designers and developers are learning the ropes and us the early adoptors are helping with our patience, suggestions and some $$ (for the underwelming hardware and somewhat expensive but limited games).

While sometime I am frustrated (space legs, menus for me) I prefer to cheer up the devs to encourage them to invest in VR and develop new games for that platform. They will get better at it and 40$ is not a whole lot to invest in the future.

In 2-3 years we will all laugh at this transition period. Some day I am sure I will look at the CV1 and the initial VR games with the same way I look today at the Commodore 64 and its ultra-jaggy games that I loved so much :-)

LucyBlue
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed, 21. Dec 11, 13:30
xr

Re: Some honest and harsh thoughts on VR implementation

Post by LucyBlue » Fri, 22. Nov 19, 17:57

Wow most of this just reads like an immature tantrum...
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
Keyboard/mouse controls are converted to VR controls 1:1. Left hand is your keyboard and right hand is your mouse - like in original. Lazy implemented VR CONTROL nightmare.
I don't know what controllers are you using, because I'm using Oculus Touch on a CV1 and it doesn't feel like that to me... And either hand can be used for "mouse" related stuff, except for clicking which is right hand only.
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
*There are 3 different menus. One main menu and two different radial ones. Always misleading which one to use.
I don't have that problem. One button pulls up a menu for drones, one button pulls up a quick menu, and the third pulls up a full menu. It's really not that complicated. Making buttered toast is more complicated.
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
*Is there any logical explanation why ship stops responding when i have right side window open? I mean i'm in virtual environment, i want to fly and read at same time just turn my head and that's it. It's lazy converted from original game with wrong assumption i can't turn my head....
To keep you from accidentally running into things while you're in the menus. That said, I too would like to be able to move when I tell the ship to move. It gets so frustrating not being able to move because the game wants to talk to me or I accidentally click something in the cockpit to pull up the screen on the right.
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
*Radial menus are controlled by mouse (yes it's your arm!) so you turn on one of radial menus in front of you with left hand and pinpoint options with second hand coz it's not worth using your finger on one of the best touchpad devices outhere.. or even model this ♥♥♥♥ing radial menu to controller you are holding in your hand and use your finger on it...
Ok? Well, I'll say this. I think it's stupid that you can only "point" with one finger at a time. It'd be nice if the game allowed you to "click" with either hand, but I can understand why it is the way it is... there's only one button for "clicking"

Personally, I think it'd work better if you had to hold the menu buttons down for a half second in order to pull the menus up and make both sides universal for menus and buttons. That would allow for a greater amount of ambidexterity... But I chalk up the issue to me being an ambidextrous person and most people being right handed... Lefties think they've got it bad, try having your brain wired to use either hand and getting frustrated that you can only use one... Instead of just being the wrong side, it feels like you've been amputated.
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
*Controllers are not modelled and collored to provide you info what button does what. Devs didn't see Nvidia VR funhouse, solus project or great google tiltbrush - Lazy VR
Do you have to look at your controller when playing a console game to know what does what? Do you have to have forward written on your W key, "strafe left" on A, "straight right" on D, and "back" on S to be able to play shooters with a keyboard and mouse? If you use controllers on PC shooters like a console peasant, again, do you need what the controls do written on the controller for you? You want to fly while looking at the screen on the right, but you don't know what the controls do unless you're looking at them? Really?
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
*game is unplayable on stations, walking movement is the WORST i've seen in VR so far, that's quite accomplishment congrats to dev...
I've literally never had this problem. Turning on stations is a bit slower than I'd like, but I wouldn't call it unplayable, and it's not like you have to shoot people on stations...
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
*doors, how do i open or interact with anything, i didn't found yet but i'll keep trying
On Oculus, you extend an index finger and press A. In the case of doors, do it on the control panel. Most doors won't open unless you have the Open Doors mod installed or have recently taken the mission for that station that gives you access to the station interior.
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
*highway tunnels - ship bounces in them so fast it's impossible to react with your hand controller so fast, ship react's to hand movement like a brick. I can't use highways so game is unplayable like this
I only have that problem when I'm not paying attention to where I'm putting my thumbs and am inadvertently gesture steering. As for the ship reacting to hand movements like a brick, sounds like you're using engines not made for fast maneuvering while gesture steering... If you're on touch, get that right thumb off the thumb rest when you're in a highway, and buy some Sidewinder engines if you want maneuverability.
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
*right menu window - so many times i clicked or touched something on first or second controller while in dogfight and this right hand widow shows up. I dont see it coz it's 90 degrees right of my head but ship stops reacting to my controls. When i want to close this damn window i have to twist ma whole ♥♥♥♥ing arm 90 degrees and click small BACk button in lower right corner. Damn this VR interface is So BAD it's quite funny somentimes :)
On Oculus Touch, Press B... It's really that simple. Don't even need to turn or click anything. Just press B.
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
*please tell me how do i turn my head left rght when on station?? touch is unresponsive, i have to use mouse which is even worse. Who tested this ?
You have a VR head set right? You turn your head by turning your head.

If controls are unresponsive on a station, save and reload the game. It's happened to me a couple times.
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
*interface development is so bad even simple things like opening and closing main menu with the same button doesn't work, ehh..
I agree that it'd be nice to be able to close the main or radial menus using the same button that was used to open them. It makes intuitive sense.
soundslikerust wrote:
Sat, 9. Dec 17, 17:45
TLDR It's so ♥♥♥♥ing great someone is trying to make this kind of game in VR. If we have to pay second time for the same game just for you to bring in new engine for future games (which we will pay again for) it's fine - just please stop being LAZY
I agree that paying full price for this is bad. I get that they need to recoup their dev costs, but you're paying full price and getting a stripped down version of the game without the campaign. There's a mod to reenable the campaign, and I can see why they stripped it out, but THAT is where actual laziness comes in... There are simple solutions to the problems here. Also, I really don't get why the game has a lot of cut content. I'm using the mods to add back in all the asteroids, extra stations, extra highways, etc, and there's no performance drop. I'm on a GTX 1060 6gb and a Ryzen 3 1200. The video card isn't anything to write home about and was fairly average when the game was released, and my CPU is the bare minimum AMD to keep Oculus from complaining about not being up to spec. So, what gives?

Alan Phipps
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 20521
Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
x4

Re: Some honest and harsh thoughts on VR implementation

Post by Alan Phipps » Fri, 22. Nov 19, 19:38

@ LucyBlue: Do you realise that you are replying to a 2 year dead thread?
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

Post Reply

Return to “X Rebirth VR Edition”