[appeal to devs: GUI overhaul proposal with screenshots]

dertien · Post by **dertien** » Sat, 5. Aug 17, 16:03

Could the multiple X-Rebirth GUI's be unified into something of this nature?

Setup 1

Main menu:

Abilities menu:

Comms menu

Interactions menu

Navigation menu

Scanners menu

... in combination with the slide-out monitor on the right side where appropriate?

Opening the Main menu one could choose directly from a number of fast options (like the quick menu we have now) but instead of SETA and OPEN ZONE MAP, one would navigate to the next menu in line:

The order of the menus could be set with regards to their frequency of use. Or, one could even go as far as to let players decide its order of each menu in the carousel with a filter menu option depending on their inclination to choose a play style (Trade, Fight, Build or Think).

One would thus scroll between a closed loop of different menu options; leaving the option to add a circular menu for modding purposes for example, or a "more..." option in either of the menus.

This would solve the following:

- No more confusion and frustration due to complex control setup woes.
- More buttons would be available to assign to other actions on all controllers.
- Any controller (VIVE, Touch, Hotas, X360 etc...) could work easily with such setup.
- Muscle memory, reaction time, learning curve and gameplay would be largely improved.

Alternative:

- Instead of the carousel system, another option would be to assign 5 positions on the Main menu (the bottom ones) to directly go to the respective menus and keep the top ones for critical shortcuts like Dock/Hail/Autopilot for example. This would possibly require less sifting through menus.

As for using voice attack and voice attack combos, the assignment of keys to all options in the circle (as it is currently done) is a must.

Sidenotes

Could you add a control for an Aim Assist toggle that can be used while ingame as well as a "weapons safe option" for missiles and guns in the weapon's choices caroussel?
Aim assist could then be revamped as a buyable software sold by Mechanics...
One keybind for all scanners: At the moment the LRS can be triggered by the "r" key, the other scanners are triggered via the interaction menu...

Are these possible and viable options that would be considered?

Franc Kaos · Post by **Franc Kaos** » Sat, 5. Aug 17, 20:31

"weapons safe option" for missiles and guns

+! for this idea.

I also like the menu idea's and (probably a big ask), move the monitor placement urgently (or bring it front and centre).

For somewhere you can spend a lot of time in it's position is awful - I almost wouldn't mind an option for it to go full screen with mouse input. I didn't play the original for long but I seem to remember spending ages on that monitor.

dertien · Post by **dertien** » Sat, 5. Aug 17, 20:37

There's a workaround for this which will help for the time being:

1) Launch the game and put on your headset.
2) Sit comfortably in your chair and then lean about a foot forward and a bit to the left.
3) Reset your HMD view while holding that position.

Enjoy watching the slideout monitor with less neck ache.

jiggywit · Post by **jiggywit** » Sat, 5. Aug 17, 22:05

That looks more complicated than it is now. Right now every menu is a button pretty away no submenus within submenus.

Franc Kaos · Post by **Franc Kaos** » Sat, 5. Aug 17, 22:20

Nice one, will give it a go

.

Had a random thought whilst playing this evening, mirror it to the radar screen, which is nice and big and directly in front of you. Also, possibly make it easier for the Devs to implement (Disclaimer: I am not a programmer).

dertien · Post by **dertien** » Sat, 5. Aug 17, 22:23

jiggywit wrote:That looks more complicated than it is now. Right now every menu is a button pretty away no submenus within submenus.

Really?

So according to you having our current collage of 5 different menus that have 3 different visual styles, all require a different button to trigger and send you on a ping-pong game between menus and the slideout-screen is less complicated?

Not sure I follow you...

Submenus within submenus are already a fact currently both with Legacy and Sidebar menu flavors in a vanilla game - take a look at the orders menu for example. Also, with the majority of 'must have mods', submenus within submenus are a fact and there is simply no way to do without them.

I fail to see where you make a valid point here.

Also with this system - everything is nicely arranged and functions with 1 button and a stick, and there could be 3 menu flavors implemented:

1) The quick style menu [Alternative solution option in OP]
2) The manager style menu (all is more divided into core segments, but menu options are all found under one radial) [screenshot examples in OP]
3) Your own style; modded using XML editing.

Don't understand what't not to like.

jiggywit · Post by **jiggywit** » Sat, 5. Aug 17, 23:04

it's fine if you could bind those menus to buttons because
right now the abilities menu and quick menu are only 1 button press away.

(Actually so is the main menu it's just not circular)

dertien · Post by **dertien** » Sat, 5. Aug 17, 23:17

Franc Kaos wrote:Nice one, will give it a go .

Had a random thought whilst playing this evening, mirror it to the radar screen, which is nice and big and directly in front of you. Also, possibly make it easier for the Devs to implement (Disclaimer: I am not a programmer).

Don't forget there are 2 other cockpits that don't have the 'big radar' screen. Only the Hawk has it.

Also, the screen in the ceiling (another alternative) is only present in

- The Hawk
- The Trapeze
- The Original cockpit (unsupported by the devs, but functional in the VR version)

an not in the crane, which is supported by the VR version.

dertien · Post by **dertien** » Sat, 5. Aug 17, 23:27

jiggywit wrote:it's fine if you could bind those menus to buttons because
right now the abilities menu and quick menu are only 1 button press away.

(Actually so is the main menu it's just not circular)

You are obviously using the Sidebar menu which will in time send you to the slideout monitor. Depending on your choice on the slideout monitor, it will send you to a Legacy menu. The main menu could link to all menus directly with 1 button and 2 joystick motions.

Be aware that there are 5 menus in this game, not just the Sidebar menu. Here is a dissertation on how to set them all up and two screenshots that show the difference between Sidebar and Legacy - a reason for my appeal to simplify things through 1 menu:

https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=395756

Also, although this game can be played on a monitor this is a game made for VR headsets, where the Quickmenu shines. I therefore used this menu instead of the one you use, which requires the use of 7 buttons altogether, and is a menu coming from the X3TC days on monitors.

- 1 POV (4 buttons)
- 1 accept button
- 1 cancel button
- 1 tabulator.

What complicates the matter further is that no button combinations are possible and that the universal quickchoices can only be triggered by the Keyboard (1-9); which I simply refuse to use in a VR game.

jiggywit · Post by **jiggywit** » Sat, 5. Aug 17, 23:56

The 2 primary menus i use are quick (left button), and abilities (Up button)
I really only use the sidebar menu to switch scanning mode (menu button)

All 3 of these are one button press and it pops right up.

I don't mind the sidebar popping up on the side. It makes sense since it's bound to the left controller.

The Legacy menu actually I haven't needed to use it yet.

jiggywit · Post by **jiggywit** » Sun, 6. Aug 17, 00:00

the other thing I like (for me anything) is the menus popping up in different places makes it feel more like a real ship with different systems.

dertien · Post by **dertien** » Sun, 6. Aug 17, 00:07

jiggywit wrote: The Legacy menu actually I haven't needed to use it yet.

The legacy menu is the menu you use when talking to NPC's, so you must hae used it. (6 choices with an A in the center)

I like complex things as long as they make sense; you seem to like complex as long as they're simple to access.

At the moment, I feel I need to master playing 'The Marriage of Figaro' on 5 different instruments blindly.

To each his own I guess.

jiggywit · Post by **jiggywit** » Sun, 6. Aug 17, 00:13

I geek out over the single button press thing makes me feel like I'm pressing a button in the cockpit to bring it up.
Then navigating with the laser pointer. Works well,imo. The setup you proposed looks like would be good when using an Xbox controller.

dertien · Post by **dertien** » Sun, 6. Aug 17, 00:23

jiggywit wrote:I geek out over the single button press thing makes me feel like I'm pressing a button in the cockpit to bring it up.
Then navigating with the laser pointer. Works well,imo. The setup you proposed looks like would be good when using an Xbox controller.

I understand that people want to use the wands or the touch controllers, it just feels alien to me because I'm used to a HOTAS, and this is not ST Bridge Crew which works well with them. The setup proposed would work well on any controller including the Wands, the Xbox and the Hotas. Unsure of the touch controllers since I don't own them.

When you get a bit deeper in the game (when doing trading and management) the submenus in submenus will become second nature.

jiggywit · Post by **jiggywit** » Sun, 6. Aug 17, 09:45

Part of the beauty of VR is having menus and interfaces popping up all around you.

I'm sure this would work with the wands, it would be a step backwards though. Like an even more dumbed down version of interacting with the computer (Bridge Crew being the gold standard).

I could understand if you were flying a different cockpit with different systems it might change the look.

Or they could add a gamepad/hotas mode that collapses all the menus.

vr mode doesn't need to be changed like this, imo.

Franc Kaos · Post by **Franc Kaos** » Sun, 6. Aug 17, 11:24

jiggywit wrote:Part of the beauty of VR is having menus and interfaces popping up all around you.
...
vr mode doesn't need to be changed like this, imo.

It would be nice to have the choice tho'.

My favourite UI trip...
Bring up sidebar (or quick menu) in the cockpit, choose comms which
Brings up the side monitor, choose NPC which
Brings up legacy menu dialogue, ask about upgrade which
Brings up side monitor, choose go back which
Brings up legacy menu...

I feel like I'm getting whiplash (my neck is no longer 19 years old).

dertien · Post by **dertien** » Sun, 6. Aug 17, 12:51

jiggywit wrote:Part of the beauty of VR is having menus and interfaces popping up all around you.

I would agree with you if the menus would show up on different ergonomically arranged screens in the physical, cockpit; OR all would have the same 'look and feel' but that is not the case.

jiggywit wrote: I'm sure this would work with the wands, it would be a step backwards though. Like an even more dumbed down version of interacting with the computer (Bridge Crew being the gold standard).

Bridge crew is not dumb at all, it's meant to be played with 4 people not necessarily sitting in the same room. One does not want / need to have controls strewn all about the place when the proverbial drek hits the fan. They nailed it with Bridge Crew.

jiggywit wrote: I could understand if you were flying a different cockpit with different systems it might change the look.

We are, but some screens are not even used by the game and they should: e.g. the big physical monitor on the central ceiling console in the starting Hawk Cockpit and in the original cockpit is dying to be used (interaction NPC's could show there instead of on the radar screen). An extra physical monitor could be added to the Crane cockpit's frontal ceiling.

Basically Elite Dangerous' left and right popup GUI's are the epitome of ergonomics. Everything is there, and once your memory knows where to find ship functions, your fingers will do the work without thinking, which is how it should be when the heat is on and you're battling multiple ships.

The GUI in X-Rebirth looks like it was designed by 5 different people each having their own agenda, but each of them was taken off off the project prematurely before any of them had the chance to finished their creation and polish it.

jiggywit wrote: vr mode doesn't need to be changed like this, imo.

Again, I fail to agree with you.XRVR although based on X-Rebirth is a completely new game. This new game deserves and needs an ergonomic GUI with a uniform look and feel that doesn't send you on a wild goose chase through your cockpit.

dertien · Post by **dertien** » Sun, 6. Aug 17, 12:58

Franc Kaos wrote:
jiggywit wrote:
It would be nice to have the choice tho'.

My favourite UI trip...

I feel like I'm getting whiplash (my neck is no longer 19 years old).
Voila!

Let me sum it up so everyone understands:

At the moment the X-Rebirth UI is like having 1 computer with

Windows 98 : Communications/Dialogue
Windows 2000: Interaction Menu
Windows XP: Drone Control
Windows Vista: Sidebar menu
Windows 10: Quickmenu

All running simultaneously on one screen with each of the interfaces doing its own thing and also has its separate ON/OFF switch, which will need to be memorized.

This is far from being a well designed interface.