[WIP] X Rebirth: The New Frontier

The place to discuss scripting and game modifications for X Rebirth.

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The Cheshire Cat
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Post by The Cheshire Cat » Fri, 5. May 17, 19:18

This sounds like a really cool mod concept and contains a lot of stuff I've been thinking about lately but don't know enough about modding to actually do myself. Hope it works out! Balancing a self-sustaining, non-cheated economy sounds like it would be a nightmare.

One comment regarding "resurrecting" dead factions - perhaps this is something government factions could do, using a portion of their wallet to finance the construction of a station for a previously destroyed corporate faction + provide them with a few trade ships to get going again. Maybe their likelihood of doing so could depend on how many corporate factions within a single trade group exist - if a group has been entirely wiped out somehow it will be extremely high priority (since the economy will eventually stall out if certain goods aren't being produced at all), and it diminishes as more competition is created. This is of course assuming that government factions will be more durable than corporate ones - if they get wiped out in not sure how you could bring them back (maybe if a government faction loses its home system there could be periodic "rebellion" events where loyalists to the old government try to retake control from the current owner, even if the old government has been totally wiped out).

One other idea for keeping the economy stable - maybe different corporations within the same group could have their own specific production modules that take different inputs to produce the same output. This would represent each corporation having its own manufacturing process, and also make it advantageous for competition to exist within a trade group, since a shortage of a particular raw material might not stall the whole system if a corporation exists that doesn't require that material for production.

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spankahontis
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Post by spankahontis » Sat, 6. May 17, 16:18

If I may offer an idea.

Food should have a more important role, Factories should accept any food (Food Rations/Bofu)
Or merge them all into something new 'Food Packages' or something like that?
Not immersive to have Bofu and have factories reject it for Food Rations.

Food should also cause a huge production/wealth buff/debuff on having or not having Food.

JESS 246
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Post by JESS 246 » Sat, 6. May 17, 20:59

Hi BlackRain & Marvin Martian

May i add an idea that's been bugging me for a long while and that is the atmosfair air on ships/stations.

How about new wears like "Oxygen generator" & "Oxygen cyclers" as part of the station/ship builds, "Oxygen canisters/tanks" for smaller/fighter ships and crews.

Maybe add a station "The Air realtor" for Air/gases and to produce the above items as well.

Wares for Oxygen item above and station Hydrogen/Nitrogen gases, Bio Wiring all steels/metals and most item needed same as ship/station builds.

Also a new station "The Gravity Well"one for gravity items like "Gravity engines" use in station and capital ship builds, "Mag plating" and Gravity polarizers" for small ships/fighters.

Items for above production similar to station/shipbuilding.

Both station should be of new designs that's if viable.

After all how and what are the stations/ships people breathing if there is no way of producing the air for them and what is stopping us floating off if no gravity.
Last edited by JESS 246 on Mon, 8. May 17, 22:43, edited 1 time in total.

BlackRain
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Post by BlackRain » Sun, 7. May 17, 23:38

Most likely in a month or so from now I will start working on this more and I will make sure to read the ideas and such that people are posting. Limited time right now.

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The Cheshire Cat
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Post by The Cheshire Cat » Mon, 8. May 17, 16:55

A random thought occurred to me: since all ships will actually be properly constructed in shipyards rather than just spawned in, do you have a plan to prevent them from being constantly clogged up by the AI so that the player can actually buy ships without their own shipyard?

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Post by Alandauron » Mon, 8. May 17, 23:11

The Cheshire Cat wrote:A random thought occurred to me: since all ships will actually be properly constructed in shipyards rather than just spawned in, do you have a plan to prevent them from being constantly clogged up by the AI so that the player can actually buy ships without their own shipyard?
An interesting thought, I'm sure faction specific shipyards with a "general" faction will probably do the trick. The faction specific ones would only give a very short pause(long enough to undock and then a matter of seconds or at max a minute) before starting on the next, but the general faction shipyard would take a break for x minutes in between each new AI project.

For the factions that don't have their own shipyard though...

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Post by BlackRain » Tue, 9. May 17, 20:28

The Cheshire Cat wrote:A random thought occurred to me: since all ships will actually be properly constructed in shipyards rather than just spawned in, do you have a plan to prevent them from being constantly clogged up by the AI so that the player can actually buy ships without their own shipyard?
This shouldn't be too complicated a thing to fix assuming the folowing:

With our new way of producing ships with a single "Ship parts" (or whatever we call it) resource, it should be much smoother building ships at shipyards, which means they wont get clogged up by unbuilt ships (and we can always set a delay for each new ship built by NPC's) this way the longest you might have to wait to build a ship would just be a few minutes.

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mr.WHO
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Post by mr.WHO » Sat, 13. May 17, 19:34

The Cheshire Cat wrote:A random thought occurred to me: since all ships will actually be properly constructed in shipyards rather than just spawned in, do you have a plan to prevent them from being constantly clogged up by the AI so that the player can actually buy ships without their own shipyard?
May I also suggest to mod shipyards to have more docks?
I think that 3 x XL and 3 x L size docks would help with clogging up of the SY.

Or even make the separate SY for XL and L size ships - it would also privide much more resource sinks.

UniTrader
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Post by UniTrader » Sat, 13. May 17, 19:44

mr.WHO wrote:
The Cheshire Cat wrote:A random thought occurred to me: since all ships will actually be properly constructed in shipyards rather than just spawned in, do you have a plan to prevent them from being constantly clogged up by the AI so that the player can actually buy ships without their own shipyard?
May I also suggest to mod shipyards to have more docks?
I think that 3 x XL and 3 x L size docks would help with clogging up of the SY.

Or even make the separate SY for XL and L size ships - it would also privide much more resource sinks.
counter-suggestion: turn XL docks into combined L/XL Docks (pretty simple to do ;) ) and add more of them only (thats the more complicated part if you want to make it look good..)
if not stated otherwise everything i post is licensed under WTFPL

Ich mache keine S&M-Auftragsarbeiten, aber wenn es fragen gibt wie man etwas umsetzen kann helfe ich gerne weiter ;)

I wont do Script&Mod Request work, but if there are questions how to do something i will GLaDly help ;)

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The Cheshire Cat
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Post by The Cheshire Cat » Tue, 16. May 17, 11:16

Is there a way to modify the cap ship dealer dialog/UI to allow for the player to queue up a ship? i.e. If a ship is already being built, the player can go through the buy UI as if the shipyard was open, and it just starts on that ship as soon as the shipyard becomes available again.

I feel like if this was possible someone probably would have made a mod that does it already, but I don't really know.

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Tue, 16. May 17, 11:26

the actual queue -process for NPC builds is only a modified randombuild and have no individualization options, so you can place a simple order of a macrotype this will be build like a NPC ship (full+drones+crew)
the regular queue have 5 slots (actually mostly occupied) so the player can add always a 6th

maggaen
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Post by maggaen » Wed, 17. May 17, 01:55

Can I just take a moment to thank you (all of you, creators and modders alike) for airing these ideas out in the open. It kinda just makes me warm and fuzzy thinking about what could be with X Rebirth, which I believe to be a great platform, if just a mediocre game.

Ghrathryn
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Post by Ghrathryn » Sun, 21. May 17, 18:21

Quick question regarding the NPC wallet system.

Will NPC factions run everything from the same wallet or will they work similar to the player where there's the 'CEO' that holds the purse strings for the faction but each station (possible all trade ships as well) has its own 'department' budget that it works from? Reason I'm asking is that I've seen some stations will burn millions, particularly when they're in the set up phase. Energy Arrays, for example, don't really have a running cost because their only resource is food rations, which are secondary, URV lines on the other hand need hundreds of microchips, bio-optic wiring, reinforced metal plate, energy cells and other things that really kill an account in a hurry since managers try to build a good few hours' stock in each ware required.

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Sun, 21. May 17, 19:32

a dedicated wallet won't change anything, in that case there would be a balance process required that would transfer money anyway

ATM the Stations will start like in vanilla with an base amount of required ressources

Problematic stations like Warehouse, which buy expensive and sell cheap (also in 4.1) won't used from this NPC factions about that reason they burn your money
sadly there is also no way i know right now to set prices for NPC-Stations by MD

UniTrader
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Post by UniTrader » Sun, 21. May 17, 19:44

not sure how long the changes persist, if at all, but have you tried this one on the Stations Trade Offers?:

Code: Select all

      <xs:element name="update_trade">
        <xs:annotation>
          <xs:documentation>
            Update certain parameters of a trade
          </xs:documentation>
        </xs:annotation>
        <xs:complexType>
          <xs:attribute name="trade" type="expression" use="required">
            <xs:annotation>
              <xs:documentation>
                The trade to update
              </xs:documentation>
            </xs:annotation>
          </xs:attribute>
          <xs:attribute name="amount" type="expression">
            <xs:annotation>
              <xs:documentation>
                New amount for the trade (optional, should already be adjusted to be the amount we can afford)
              </xs:documentation>
            </xs:annotation>
          </xs:attribute>
          <xs:attribute name="desiredamount" type="expression">
            <xs:annotation>
              <xs:documentation>
                New desiredamount for the trade (optional, how much we *really* want, ignoring financial constraints)
              </xs:documentation>
            </xs:annotation>
          </xs:attribute>
          <xs:attribute name="price" type="expression">
            <xs:annotation>
              <xs:documentation>
                New price (per unit) for the trade (optional)
              </xs:documentation>
            </xs:annotation>
          </xs:attribute>
        </xs:complexType>
      </xs:element>

Also maybe you can manage the Trade Offers of a Station per Script only if you dont perform the <create_ai_unit/> (located in the Manager AI or MD Script iirc) for that sation (i think this one is responsible for the Station to start generating Trade Offers, but you can also generate each one per Script, with more suitable and unchanging prices ;) )

Note: Infos provided here based on assumptions didnt get around to experiment with these myself yet..
if not stated otherwise everything i post is licensed under WTFPL

Ich mache keine S&M-Auftragsarbeiten, aber wenn es fragen gibt wie man etwas umsetzen kann helfe ich gerne weiter ;)

I wont do Script&Mod Request work, but if there are questions how to do something i will GLaDly help ;)

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Sun, 21. May 17, 23:18

doesn't seems to have any effect, added code into do_while at trade.station.tradestation

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The Cheshire Cat
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Post by The Cheshire Cat » Mon, 22. May 17, 08:22

I had a random thought regarding something someone mentioned earlier about it being weird for mercenaries to deal in illegal goods: maybe instead of mercenaries trading spacefuel/narcotics/etc., there could be a sub-type of pirate factions called "smugglers". Unlike pirates, smugglers would have a neutral reputation with other factions, and would not attack freighters hauling goods. Instead their primary business would be two things: producing/trading in illegal wares, and laundering stolen goods. By the latter, what I mean is that smugglers would buy ware from pirate factions (they would also be neutral with proper "pirates"), and then re-sell them to legitimate businesses/governments.

The main reason I think this would be a nice solution is that it would both allow mercenaries to maintain their role as guns for hire, as well as giving pirate factions some way of selling off plundered goods, since even though they will use some goods within their own factories, odds are they aren't going to be able to use everything they loot and they should be able to get rid of it somehow.

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Mon, 22. May 17, 08:48

to connect economies there is already a "symbolic" Faction that can working with everyone, pirates (and Xenon) will cover as this faction to get deals from here Enemies and process trades

it's also a way for the player to cover himself and his ship/subordinates for a short period - like to travel trough enemy space
your ship won't attack and in case you order then too, the cover will fall

Warnoise
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Post by Warnoise » Mon, 29. May 17, 09:40

Will the pirates also board ships?

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Mon, 29. May 17, 10:11

in theorie possible, but i assume that the ship would destroyed in any situation - if not shot down by pirates then from the old owner

maybe it could possible in pirate-home-zones in special sitations, like hull is good and engine/jumpdrive is destroyed - we will investigate

actually only surrender (by drop cargo against plunder-tasks) for tradeships is intended, before the ship breaks

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