[MOD] Conquest and War in Rebirth! Release Version 1.60 10-30-2016

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BlackRain
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Post by BlackRain » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 15:47

kelmenwong wrote:
BlackRain wrote: Hello, yeah, with the CM Attacks, they jump into the zone. With fleets spawned by JOBS they do not jump into the zone. I am probably going to disable the CM attack spawns (only leave the defense CM spawns on) and attacks will only be done by job fleets. This way they will have to travel normally like you do. Remember though, even if they jump into Lava flow, they can quickly boost to another zone (fleets spawned by JOBS that is)
shouldn't they only able to boost to other zone only after they occupied the initial zone 1st?
imo, this doesn't help the gaming. u fortify a passage with heavy force, while u can leave ur backyard loosely guarded.
with this "quickly boost" mechanism, it defeat the purpose.
if i'm the attacking force, i rather full force to occupy a zone, rather than spread myself thin, unless it is merely working as terrorism, regardless of my force safety and continuity.
Well the jumping in to any zone will eventually be disabled, however, it is not ridiculous or unrealistic that a ship would boost somewhere. If you don't engage quickly , they may boost somewhere. However, I am thinking of having a faction need to take a jump beacon zone first and then they can invade any other zone in the sector ( exception here is zones with gates if attacking through gate)

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Post by BlackRain » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 20:10

I am working on a new version which disables the Invasions from CM. This means that fleets wont be spawned by CM which jump right into whatever zone they are attacking.

Now, invasions will be done through JOBS with defined "rules" revolving around zone and sector ownership. It will follow logically and make sense.

For example, if PMC has atleast a faction strength of 40 (out of 100) and controls Shady Vault, and Auspicious Excavation, but does not control Twilight Sentinel, they will invade Twilight Sentinel. If they meet all the previous requirements, plus control Twilight Sentinel, they will invade all of Devries.

Now I could tweak this so they need to take control of Fervid Corona to invade the rest of Glaring Truth and Lava flow to invade the rest of Molten Archon. The only thing I have against this, though, is if the player amasses a giant fleet in the zone that the AI fleets just can't ever handle, then they would never attack any other zone there. Perhaps that is preferable, though? I would like to hear feedback!

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Post by w.evans » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 20:21

Sounds logical that they'd commit to taking Twilight Sentinel first, try to establish a beachhead, so to speak, then move on in. And yes, committing to take beacon zones first makes sense, and I think it helps a lot that these things make sense so that the player would act accordingly, and it would introduce some strategy into the game.

However, I think that raids into enemy territory, still passing through beacon zones, but immediately trying to slip past into non-beacon zones that have high economic activity makes sense as well. In that case, not trying to take, for example, Darned Hot Air or Glaring Truth, rather just attempting to hurt their enemy's economy and distract from the front that they do want to take.

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Post by BlackRain » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 20:36

w.evans wrote:Sounds logical that they'd commit to taking Twilight Sentinel first, try to establish a beachhead, so to speak, then move on in. And yes, committing to take beacon zones first makes sense, and I think it helps a lot that these things make sense so that the player would act accordingly, and it would introduce some strategy into the game.

However, I think that raids into enemy territory, still passing through beacon zones, but immediately trying to slip past into non-beacon zones that have high economic activity makes sense as well. In that case, not trying to take, for example, Darned Hot Air or Glaring Truth, rather just attempting to hurt their enemy's economy and distract from the front that they do want to take.
Well, what "could" be done is that a Heavy fleet is only launched to take a jump beacon first, if take jump beacon zone then a heavy fleet can attack all zones in sector.

If they do not control the jump beacon zone, they can launch light fleets as raids into any zone in the sector. The only problem is that the zone takeover code could take any sector as long as a capital ship is there and there is no enemy presence or station. This "could" still be fine, though. If they find a remote place where no enemy activity, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to set up shop, but, still no heavy fleets until jump beacon zone capture. I think I like that iteration best.

Also, fighters will be able to go anywhere

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Post by BlackRain » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 21:19

Okay, gonna start a little small on this one with not too much fleshing out initially because it is a lot of work but currently in the next version (assuming tests go okay)

1) No more CM invasion fleets but CM still will spawn RESPONSE fleets. If a zone is taken, the faction that previously owned the zone, may very well spawn a response fleet to try and take it back.

2) Reivers are pretty fleshed out at least so far as DEVRIES is concerned. They will attempt to take all of Barren Heart if they can initially (will still send raids into other sectors of Devries). If they take all of Barren Heart, they will attempt to take zones with Jump beacons. If they take the zones with Jump beacons, they will attempt to take over the rest of the Sector.

3) Currently HOA will attempt to take The Big Empty. If they take the Big Empty, they will attack ASCENDENCY sector and try to take it over. They will try to take the Jump beacon zone first and then other sectors if they control it. They will also defend their own Far Out Sector and try to hold/recapture the big empty if necessary (without big empty, their invasions into Albion are in jeopardy and they will not invade)

HOA will get much more work then this!

4) PMC will invade Far out, try to retain control over the big empty or else they can't invade far out. They will also try to retain control of TWILIGHT SENTINEL and AUSPICIOUS EXCAVATION. Without these zones, they can't invade DEVRIES! I did not flesh this out yet, so their invasion of Devries is chaotic still (although not like CM spawns).

5) ROC is not fleshed out yet, they will try to hold their own sector and attack BARREN HEART and BLEAK PEBBLE. This needs work for orderly invasions.


That is all for now (there is already previous work with other factions too but not as fleshed out as reivers right now. Other factions will still attack in certain ways and defend, etc.)

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Post by BlackRain » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 22:06

Saquavin wrote:
BlackRain wrote:
They are using code from MICT
Have you implemented MICT in conquest and war ? I have MICT standalone, should I remove it to avoid compatibility problem ?

Have you implemented others mods ?
Here are what I'm using, do you spot any incompatibility issue in this list ?

- Teladi outpost
- conquest and war
- boarding options
- marine rebalance
- mission computer
- faster ships
- no collision damage
- NPC gain xp
- VR skill evalutation
- craft virtual seminar
- trade agent forever
- show me your faction, please
- micellaneous combat tweaks
- station engineer
- super scanner
You should still download MICT (I say this because just easier to remember if you installed the WHOLE package. All the other parts of the MICT mod still work good and it wont interfere even if you download the parts I used since I use different scripts. )

Whatever was in CM and in WWX is in here. All other mods should work fine unless they change JOBS in some way.

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 22:24

An idea about fraction strength, could you include sold and random build ships in your calculation by add some "bonus points" over move.die to the mentioned faction for each ship that go this way to explore the galaxy

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Post by w.evans » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 22:31

Just occurred to me: strategies could be faction specific. Big factions are PMC, HOA, ROC, Reivers, Argon, Xenon, and Split?

PMC could be brute force turtlers. Slow massive build-up, attack in force, fortify, rinse, repeat. Forces concentrated. Lightly defended (or completely undefended) heart land. Raids against them will be juicy.
HOA - sustained guerilla warfare: fleet dispersed into light, fast fleets; lots of raids; mobile defence.
ROC - basically civilians, aren't they? But lots of experience from dealing with Reivers. So some light patrols, but massive reaction fleets (bigger than they ought to be capable of producing) that tear into opponents, retake territory, then dissipate. Massive reaction fleets could be on a timer that gets shorter the more resources they have.
Argon - dunno. Still haven't been to Omicron Lyrae in X:R. But from X3, I remember them being well-organized, and having a professional, well-equipped military. Concentrated forces, slow methodical fortification, but with occasional raids? Try to provoke attack, then smash weak spots.
Xenon - snowball.
Split - will be hard. I remember them being fast, offensive fighters; but they're locked into a defence against the Xenon.

Reivers are fleshed-out already, you said. They're still very enigmatic to me, so I don't know how they'd think. Kind of like zombie Yaki?

Forgot the Teladi factions!

Hm, TU - turtle.

Cartel and UA - traitors that switch alliances? (Rewards for the Cartel and UA switching alliances should be substantial for it to be convincing, though. Faction that they're allied with gets Cartel and UA ship spawns independent of faction economic status, but these fleets could suddenly switch sides? Switch sides based on what in gameplay terms? Who's winning? How decisive an allegiance switch could be? They're in it for the money, aren't they?)

Would be interesting to see who comes out on top if it's just allowed to run.
Last edited by w.evans on Sat, 25. Jul 15, 22:40, edited 1 time in total.

BlackRain
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Post by BlackRain » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 22:39

Well, Reivers are fleshed out in the sense that there are definitions ( an order) for how they will invade DEVRIES. This is not something set in stone but at least good enough for now.

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Post by BlackRain » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 22:57

Marvin Martian wrote:An idea about fraction strength, could you include sold and random build ships in your calculation by add some "bonus points" over move.die to the mentioned faction for each ship that go this way to explore the galaxy
While possible, I don't know if it is feasible. The faction strength calc is simple right now. Any more complex and it might become more of a nuisance then anything else. I guess we could look into it.

I suppose bonus points isn't so bad but the power requirements isn't that developed right now. It is more of a limiter then anything else. This is to ensure that a faction does spawn less as it gets weaker and can ultimately disappear. It isn't really a system that spawns stuff by points. The goal is to give fun and look realistic without actually being realistic haha.

Anyway, any thoughts are welcome though and things could certainly change one way or the other. If people have ideas on how a different system might work, it is something we could definitely explore.

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Post by BlackRain » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 23:11

By the way guys, I am going to be adding a station population script to the mod. The script adds NPC's to your station (I looked through the station population mod but didn't like certain things about it so I borrowed some of the code but I also added in other stuff to make one of my own flavor)

This script will add all kinds of NPCs to your stations, but not the traders, except for DRONE, AMMO and RECRUIT traders.

It will add Pilots, Captains, Defense officers, engineers, architects, marine officers, managers (all the workers you need) but no traders other then the ones above. I could change this if people ask but the reason why is that then your station gets packed with all kinds of traders and less workers. I like to have a lot of workers.

Also, the workers will all be 5 stars. I could change this, though and give it a range if people want. I prefer just getting 5 star guys though.

No specialists as that is bugged. NPCs will repopulate when leaving and reentering zone.

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Post by DaveDee » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 23:39

Guys, at this rate you're need to rename mod to something like "THE ONLY ONE MOD YOU NEED" soon.

And i'm the first one who ask for standart workers skills on player stations. They were very low-skilled in mentioned mod, btw.
Last edited by DaveDee on Sun, 26. Jul 15, 00:10, edited 1 time in total.

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Marvin Martian
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Post by Marvin Martian » Sat, 25. Jul 15, 23:55

BlackRain wrote:While possible, I don't know if it is feasible. The faction strength calc is simple right now. Any more complex and it might become more of a nuisance then anything else. I guess we could look into it.
in "Yaki Armada" you could sell ships to the Pirates, that they use afterwards - ok that won't work here, but it might be a choice to support one (or more) factions without be real part of the war

also it would be a direct relation to a functional economy if the ships need to be build

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Post by BlackRain » Sun, 26. Jul 15, 00:06

Marvin Martian wrote:
BlackRain wrote:While possible, I don't know if it is feasible. The faction strength calc is simple right now. Any more complex and it might become more of a nuisance then anything else. I guess we could look into it.
in "Yaki Armada" you could sell ships to the Pirates, that they use afterwards - ok that won't work here, but it might be a choice to support one (or more) factions without be real part of the war

also it would be a direct relation to a functional economy if the ships need to be build
I understand but tying it to the economy is a very difficult thing. Forget about ships being built and used. If there is a way that it can be tied to the economy in a sort of broad way or practical way then I would love to do it but would need ideas on that one. How would it be implemented? Also remember that I am doing this alone currently (with some help from w.evans which I greatly appreciate) until Rubini returns and then it is still just us two. I would love more help if anyone has the skill and time!!

Would love to add more ships and features and more complicated calculations and such but need the people who can help do it all.

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Post by vadiolive » Sun, 26. Jul 15, 00:18

Script running between fortify/invasion/recon "job"

in Foritfy Status : ship are "produce"(spawned but with shipyard resource sink)

Based on far way are from faction core
PMC in example Shady Vaulty - Ascedancy (shipyard + drone? i believe nice area to call core)

In this stage script handle random Stregth Fleet based distance from core

in Shady vault be 100 * (10-100) its total fleet stregth can be respanwed in this zone!
in Aspicius Esxcavator be 5 * (10-100) i think you got point right?

recon stage :
Every x min build fews scouts(can be S / M ships or low L ship) and send to near sectors

if encounter enemy he going try sum fleet streght from this sector

Invasion stage :
After script select zone going invade
roll 2d100 to see how chance going be
script start building fleet in Core Zone

(Enemy Zone Fleet Stregth * (result from dices))
each x fleet stregth take y time to build

Example to made invasion force with 1200 fleet stregth take 1h
to make 600 take around 25min

Its bit overall idea i think guys can improved

BlackRain
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Post by BlackRain » Sun, 26. Jul 15, 00:54

vadiolive wrote:Script running between fortify/invasion/recon "job"

in Foritfy Status : ship are "produce"(spawned but with shipyard resource sink)

Based on far way are from faction core
PMC in example Shady Vaulty - Ascedancy (shipyard + drone? i believe nice area to call core)

In this stage script handle random Stregth Fleet based distance from core

in Shady vault be 100 * (10-100) its total fleet stregth can be respanwed in this zone!
in Aspicius Esxcavator be 5 * (10-100) i think you got point right?

recon stage :
Every x min build fews scouts(can be S / M ships or low L ship) and send to near sectors

if encounter enemy he going try sum fleet streght from this sector

Invasion stage :
After script select zone going invade
roll 2d100 to see how chance going be
script start building fleet in Core Zone

(Enemy Zone Fleet Stregth * (result from dices))
each x fleet stregth take y time to build

Example to made invasion force with 1200 fleet stregth take 1h
to make 600 take around 25min

Its bit overall idea i think guys can improved
This wouldn't work much really. There is no like "invasion" stage. Ships have "Jobs" they perform based on certain "directions" I guess you could call it. I mean maybe resources could be somehow tied to jobs so that when a Jobs ship spawns (and fleet) it uses resources of some kind. Something to look into. Ill worry about it when Rubini gets back, I am quite busy with what I am currently doing.

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Post by w.evans » Sun, 26. Jul 15, 01:19

Didn't Rubini already tie in resource usage with CM spawning? I seem to remember him mentioning that some resources were taken out of shipyards in conjunction with CM fleet spawning. Could tie that into your job activation mechanism.

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Post by BlackRain » Sun, 26. Jul 15, 01:31

w.evans wrote:Didn't Rubini already tie in resource usage with CM spawning? I seem to remember him mentioning that some resources were taken out of shipyards in conjunction with CM fleet spawning. Could tie that into your job activation mechanism.
Yes, he did and I thought that might be the way to go. I haven't looked into it yet, though. I will when I get a chance.

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Post by BlackRain » Sun, 26. Jul 15, 03:15

New Alpha version 0.3 is being uploaded. No more CM INVASIONS. So you do not have to worry about ships jumping right on top of your head in the most remote of places heh.

Now invasions follow a strategy of zone conquest. It is not fully implemented yet!

Right now, the war between PMC and HOA in far out should be very interesting!

Also, the War between the Reivers and ROC in Barren Heart should be interesting too (If reivers can conquer all of barren heart, they will start invading glaring truth and molten archon)

Edit --- Just working on it a bit more to make fights in Devries more interesting (now should have interesting fights happening in Albion and Devries)

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Post by BlackRain » Sun, 26. Jul 15, 05:45

Some experiences I had so far which were very cool:

Sitting in gemstone manufactury. Xenon I fleet pops in with K escorts and fighter escorts. HOA has one Arawn fleet with balors and fighters and their special Scaldis Battle Star fleet with balors and fighter escorts. Huge battle ensues as the Xenon fleet tries to take out the Wholesome foods factory. HOA fleets win, take some losses, then as if they knew what was happening all along, a PMC fleet pops in, one after the other. Another huge battle takes place, somehow HOA holds them off.



Then, the last battle I was just in (which I died in).

HOA fleet attacks the big empty. Bombarding the PMC massive station. after a bit, PMC fleet comes in. Big battle, then another HOA fleet comes in. Two more PMC fleets come in. I was trying my best to take out some of the new Sul frigate ships, got blasted by JET/LR's 3 times (after maneuvering past several others) Took out a lot of ships but eventually died. Lost over an hour because I forgot to save but it was sick.

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