[MOD] Miscellaneous IZ Combat Tweaks

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oliverjanda
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Post by oliverjanda » Tue, 10. Mar 15, 11:47

Regarding compatibility:
Better turrets
This means you are not going to improve those (los check etc), right?
Captain AI Overhaul
Doesn't your mod make that one redundant?

Would you recommend to use those 2 mods with your mod?
I'm suprised this is all compatible!

w.evans
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Post by w.evans » Tue, 10. Mar 15, 12:11

Rubini wrote:About Epic Capital Ship Shields .... even with your tweaks on OOZ (and with the upcoming changes on the matter on 3.50) we yet need it for good OOZ?
I still have it installed, but if you're just worried about capital ships getting one-shotted OOZ, ECSS is probably unnecessary now since the OOZ calculations have been changed, especially in 3.50.
oliverjanda wrote:Regarding compatibility:
Better turrets
This means you are not going to improve those (los check etc), right?
Captain AI Overhaul
Doesn't your mod make that one redundant?

Would you recommend to use those 2 mods with your mod?
I'm suprised this is all compatible!
Yeah, this uses a separate script which fight.attack.object.xml calls instead of move.attack.object.capital.xml if certain conditions are met, so mods that modify move.attack.object.capital.xml, like cicero111's Captain AI Overhaul, are unaffected.

In a game where Captain AI Overhaul, UFO, and MICT are all present, UFO ships will use the UFO movement scripts, non-UFO ships with 4 star crews will use the MICT movement scripts, all other capital ships will use Captain AI Overhaul.

Better Turrets, yeah, haven't touched the firing stuff yet. I have included a copy of fight.attack.object.capital, renamed as MICT.fight.attack.object.capital, but only because MICT ships don't seem to fire IZ without it. Otherwise, Better Turrets, or vanilla, are ok. I was thinking of limiting the angle at which the Balor fires and adding an LOS check since its refire rate is so low, and is so inaccurate now if it isn't pointed almost directly at the target, but didn't want to break compatibility just for that.

birdtable
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Post by birdtable » Tue, 10. Mar 15, 12:53

Not sure if this relevant or not but witnessed a Balor take on 2 xenon K's, the Balor targeted the non aggressive K (to the Balor) and ignored the 2nd K which did become aggressive.
Although the Balor did eventually open fire on 2nd K it maintained missile attack on the non aggressive K.

w.evans
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Post by w.evans » Tue, 10. Mar 15, 13:58

Hi birdtable,

Thanks for the feedback! The Balor attacking a hostile that isn't aggressive is consistent with vanilla behavior when Defence Officers are set to "attacking enemies." They'll try to take potshots at any hostile ships that come into range. Just a bit more pronounced with our modded Balors since their range is now so long.

About the ship not evading the 2nd K right away, yeah, that's still a problem I'm trying to work out. At the moment, the crew focuses on one target, and maneouvers relative to that, but can, in the process, inadvertently maneouver close to a different hostile. Kind of works in that MICT Balors have to have some weakness, but I don't like it not being deliberate.

About the balance, are Balors supposed to be able to take on Xenon Ks? Haven't encountered a Xenon K in X:R yet, so I don't know. Also, if you're running supplement 2 from the OOZ mod (MOC-T_supp2_v0.01) along with MICT, there would be a pretty good chance of newly-spawned Xenon ships running MICT. Should make them all considerably more formidable.

oliverjanda
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Post by oliverjanda » Tue, 10. Mar 15, 14:06

@w.evans
Did you consider to make yourself a gamestart for testing purposes?
Give yourself the ships you want to test and place the enemies accordingly.
I have an example at home somewhere if you need one.

w.evans
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Post by w.evans » Tue, 10. Mar 15, 14:18

Thanks oliver, but not into testing for the sake of testing at the moment, at least not in the scale that I was into when I did Marine Rebalance where I had situations set up just to check certain conditions. Mostly because free time is scarcer now than it used to be. So I use that free time to play, or mod as the whim comes, and I test as I go.

Also, I feel that I wouldn't have a good idea of the capabilities of ships relative to what a player would have at a given point in the game unless I encounter them in-game with what assets I have at that point in time.

That said, I've been exploring Transcend lately, and there appear to be Xenon there, so I might encounter the bigger Xenon ships sooner rather than later.

oliverjanda
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Post by oliverjanda » Tue, 10. Mar 15, 14:31

Just thought that may save you some time...

Transcend is next to Maelstrom, right?
In Maelstrom should be plenty large Xenon. I aquired a Xenon I there recently :)

w.evans
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Post by w.evans » Tue, 10. Mar 15, 15:40

oliverjanda wrote:Just thought that may save you some time...
He he. Probably would. In any case, thanks for the offer.

birdtable
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Post by birdtable » Tue, 10. Mar 15, 16:26

@ w.evans ...If it is of any consolation it was a very enjoyable experience watching the onset and the conflict (Balor v 2K) ..stopped what I was doing and became a spectator ... Great work.

w.evans
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Post by w.evans » Tue, 10. Mar 15, 19:24

Finally got to see the Xenon capships. Went into Maelstrom this afternoon, and stumbled upon an I and 2 Ks with fighter escorts. The fleet I brought was a bit overkill, though: 4 Taranis as an honor guard, 3 squadrons, each with a Sucellus and two Stromvoks, and my hunter-killer squadron with 3 Sucellus and 4 Balors. Everything running MICT, except for the 4 Taranis which were running a modified UFO (modified to act like MICT except faster) with 20km engagement range.

Forget the I man, I want a K! The I looks cool, and is very powerful across all ranges; but those HIVI/MA turrets on the K are nasty.

Was quite a show. Didn't lose any ships, except for a Lepton which was acting as my fleet support ship, although the Taranis and Stromvoks were pummeled quite a bit. After the Xenon ships were dispatched, Ks were spawned rather quickly, so I'll stay here for a while to see if Xenon 2.0 MICT ships are spawned, and how they play.

HyperCube
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Post by HyperCube » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 12:29

Hello,

First of all, i would like to thank you for making this MOD, guys like you are the pillars of Xrebith,

I installed your IZCombat Tweak and OOZ MODs.

I tried to see how the balor and sucelus behave with this mod, so i gave them an attack command on an enemy heavy Sul.

Nothing changed....they just went full bullcharge onto the enemy and stayed still without facing the enemy and/or using their main weapons.

I was very sad because that was my only hope to finally see Balor and sucelus shine by properly doing their roles...

Is there something that i need to do in game to fix it?

i have no oher mods installed.

w.evans
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Post by w.evans » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 12:45

Hey HyperCube,

It sounds like you're running the mods without any of the supplements. Without the supplements, this mod will only change how the ships move, and you described how the Balor's supposed to move with the mod: boost or jump to position (depending on how far it wants to go to get to its target position), point the front of the ship toward the target, stop moving, and keep the front pointed towards the target. It will, in the meantime, try to stay within the far edge of it's firing range. Should work ok, but not terribly exciting.

supplement 3 from Miscellaneous OOZ Combat Tweaks (MOC-T_supp3) extends the range of the Balor's torpedoes, so the range at which it stays should be much farther than anything else's firing range. The accuracy of that calculation will depend on the skill of the ship's captain, however.

supplement 1 from Miscellaneous IZ Combat Tweaks (MICT_supp1) is where the fireworks happen. Balors fire 4 barrages of 16 torpedoes per reload cycle. Damage per torpedo is tweaked down, and reload cycles are tweaked up to sort of keep the Balor from being overly OP, but it should be a lot more effective (and, I very subjectively find, a lot more exciting to have) than vanilla Balors.

Maximum speed of Balor torpedoes is also increased, but acceleration is decreased, and maneouverability is not changed, so torpedoes tend to fly where they're pointed with very slight adjustments, and there's a pretty good chance to miss if firing on a fairly fast target. There's a very small chance that all of the torpedoes of a barrage will hit the target. (Try not to have them fire in any zones with friendly stations on them. Managed to piss off the Canterans doing that once.)

If you DO have the supplements that I mentioned, and haven't noticed anything different, then there's something wrong, and I would like more details, please.

edit: sorry, 16 torps, not 14.
Last edited by w.evans on Wed, 11. Mar 15, 12:56, edited 1 time in total.

oliverjanda
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Post by oliverjanda » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 12:50

Maybe the crew is not 4 star level?

w.evans
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Post by w.evans » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 12:53

HyperCube wrote:Nothing changed....they just went full bullcharge onto the enemy and stayed still without facing the enemy and/or using their main weapons.
Sorry, I missed this part. And it does indicate to me that the new movement stuff is not active at all.
oliverjanda wrote:Maybe the crew is not 4 star level?
Yes. This is also important, thanks oliver. All of the members of the crew have to have at least 4 stars in all of their primary skills.

If they do, and it looks like the mod is not active, then there's a problem, and I would appreciate more details to help find what it is, please.

HyperCube
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Post by HyperCube » Wed, 11. Mar 15, 13:05

w.evans wrote:Hey HyperCube,

It sounds like you're running the mods without any of the supplements. Without the supplements, this mod will only change how the ships move, and you described how the Balor's supposed to move with the mod: boost or jump to position (depending on how far it wants to go to get to its target position), point the front of the ship toward the target, stop moving, and keep the front pointed towards the target. It will, in the meantime, try to stay within the far edge of it's firing range. Should work ok, but not terribly exciting.

supplement 3 from Miscellaneous OOZ Combat Tweaks (MOC-T_supp3) extends the range of the Balor's torpedoes, so the range at which it stays should be much farther than anything else's firing range. The accuracy of that calculation will depend on the skill of the ship's captain, however.

supplement 1 from Miscellaneous IZ Combat Tweaks (MICT_supp1) is where the fireworks happen. Balors fire 4 barrages of 14 torpedoes per reload cycle. Damage per torpedo is tweaked down, and reload cycles are tweaked up to sort of keep the Balor from being overly OP, but it should be a lot more effective (and, I very subjectively find, a lot more exciting to have) than vanilla Balors.

Maximum speed of Balor torpedoes is also increased, but acceleration is decreased, and maneouverability is not changed, so torpedoes tend to fly where they're pointed with very slight adjustments, and there's a pretty good chance to miss if firing on a fairly fast target. There's a very small chance that all of the torpedoes of a barrage will hit the target. (Try not to have them fire in any zones with friendly stations on them. Managed to piss off the Canterans doing that once.)

If you DO have the supplements that I mentioned, and haven't noticed anything different, then there's something wrong, and I would like more details, please.
Thank you for your quick reply.

The only supplements installed are:

MICT_supp2_v0.01-450-0-01
MOC-T_supp3_v0.02-447-0-02

I didn't install the supp 1 because i wanted to test the Balor and sulecus behaviour first.

I started the fight by having the Balor and the Sulecus (being in my squad) facing the enemy from about 20km.

I then issued the attack command on the enemy Heavy Sul (who has a fighter squadron escorting him). Suddenly, the Balor used his turbo onto the enemy almost ramming it then just stayed there using his turrets. The sulecus did exactly the same thing without even trying to face towards the target.

I tried it many times and keeps doing the same thing.

Maybe i shouldnt use the attack command? ( the same result with the Attack object...command)

I run 3.2 by the way.

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