[MOD] SHIP REBALANCE Realistic physics and full/assisted inertia (V1.5)

[bbeach]

Unfortunally due to the way this is coded a full newtonian model is quite unplayable since to have it we must eliminate the STRAFE. Thus the ship does not have any real LATERAL/VERTICAL THRUSTERS and moving in full inertial space is quite challenging with only rear/front thrusters, it makes impossible to fly it near stations without crashing anywhere.

I'm confused, did you say that "strafe" thrusters don't fit into a newtonian flight physics model? Or were you saying that the way x-rebirth implements strafe thrusters breaks your attempt at a newtonian model?

[Realspace]

Unfortunally due to the way this is coded a full newtonian model is quite unplayable since to have it we must eliminate the STRAFE. Thus the ship does not have any real LATERAL/VERTICAL THRUSTERS and moving in full inertial space is quite challenging with only rear/front thrusters, it makes impossible to fly it near stations without crashing anywhere.

I'm confused, did you say that "strafe" thrusters don't fit into a newtonian flight physics model? Or were you saying that the way x-rebirth implements strafe thrusters breaks your attempt at a newtonian model?

Quite it, strafe is some kind of strange counter-physics (let's say). In X universe space is not a vacuum but is like to be inside a liquid, so by STRAFING you can augment the resistance of this liquid, if you remove completely the "liquid" (as in empty space) there's no resistance you can augment by strafing...ehm..hope I was not too cofused.

In real simulation you should simply have no resistance at all and as many thrusters you want.

With lataral and vertical thrusters..real ones..also a full newtonian flight is possible near station becouse you can strafe in any direction to avoid collision, with this model unfortunally it is not possible.

The only solution is:

1) change the physics for player's ship (mybe it is possible)
2) make possible to switch between the two kind of engines (FULL/ASSISTED)

Just you have to know that to have FULL INERTIA we have to set the strafe to 0 but doing so the strafing of the ship deos not work anymore

-----------

OK I made a full release, V 1.0. All the engines are implemented, with lot of differences among them, as before 2 models, full newtonian and assisted.

Any feedback is apreciated. Consider the Assisted as a REBALANCE MOD for player's ship.

http://xrebirth.nexusmods.com/mods/49/

[Privata]

thanks for the fast update
il play around and give feedback when I have played for some hours.

[Thurmonator]

It does ad a whole entire new challenge to the game and that is...how to successfully get to where you want to end up and stay there.

Neat idea. How is fighting dogfights with this mod?

[Realspace]

don't kow, still testing me too. It is more challenging and the full newtonian quite impossible for normal play, I'm playng with the assisted and it is very immersive if you also remove the highways, System DeVrie is so mysterious now

If you ever played other space sims you know how to fly in combat with a (quite) newtonian flight mode, hope it is balanced enough. Rememeber Always to USE BOOSTER TO COUNTER-REACT THE INERTIA, this helps a lot. Of course NPC ships use other engines (vanilla) that are more manouvrable (NO PROBLEM WITH AI) so this should equal the level at the end. Please report back.

Remember to use the full trottle only for travelling, don't approach the stations at full speed..you are advised!!

I'm thinking of making the engine more different, i.e. the manouvrable engine having more inertia dumpner (similar to vanilla) but less velocity/acceleration, this way my mod becomes an implementation to the gameplay, you can choose different styles and also have a reason to buy new engines, as thery are now (vanilla) it doesn't change much I think but I say this only from the specs, still did not test all the engines.

-----------

VERSION 1.1 RELEASED. Rebalanced all the different engines to make them more different and worth to buy. Each should please a different style of play.

EDIT
VERSION 1.2 RELEASED. there were errors, please download version 1.2

[Thane>]

Nice, and thanks, this was one of the first negatives i noticed while previewing this game, a lack of realistic movement. It important, and under-rated i think, like when first person movements are of poor quality, to me it really effects the immersion when your guns/arm movement doesn't fit the speed or the step sound effects or the head bob. Or when you instantly start off at a run, etc, etc, etc. In X:R there is a lack of believable momentum. In animation, we are taught to "explain", through the animation, where the forces come from (and go...) to generate realism or suspension of disbelief. In X:R, the what, where, how, why is very unclear.

[froggyluv]

Love the Asst version -great job!

[Realspace]

Version 1.3 released.

I think it's all well balanced and without bugs. Please report.
Top speed has been changed for the different class of engine, even if it is not a feature you'll see in the game since acceleration is no more crazy as in vanilla (it would smash an human on the seat in reality) and your ship drift a lot, so going at 900 m/s is not advisable apart from traveling.

About the full inertial model, I've readded a very minimal "air friction" that you don't feel in the game but help to completely stop the ship

TODO LIST
1) Change the trottle increase steps (mouse wheel) to have more little steps. Given the speed and inertia you need something like 5%/10%/20% trotle to fly around the stations
2) Change the entry of the vendors so that they don't show the top speed (which is meaningless in space) but other things such as frontal acceleration and possible more values.
2) a script that can make you switch between assisted and full inertial (well, I need help for that! )

[jeroll3d]

Need a new game? No load in save game?

[Realspace]

Need a new game? No load in save game?

no, it replaces the behaviour of the engine you have on the ship at the moment, no need to start a new game.

Be sure you have the latest version, there were bugs before

[jeroll3d]

Need a new game? No load in save game?

no, it replaces the behaviour of the engine you have on the ship at the moment, no need to start a new game.

Be sure you have the latest version, there were bugs before

Oh, very nice! Thanks.

[Privata]

Im going to try somthing....
Im going to give the assited version of the mod to all ships of class '"S"

Madness I hear you say? no this is moding madness is found in another subforum.

il tell you how it is , tbh I am just expecting the Ai to slide around like errr somthing that slids around...

[Realspace]

Im going to try somthing....
Im going to give the assited version of the mod to all ships of class '"S"

Madness I hear you say? no this is moding madness is found in another subforum.

il tell you how it is , tbh I am just expecting the Ai to slide around like errr somthing that slids around...

no no it's all up to you AI contines to use the normal engine, mybe I'll add the top speed only for other ships, in future, but I suspect they are stupid becosue of stupid AI not becouse of the player being too fast ;-=

[myztkl-kev]

if you could add a full reverse so when you go full reverse it acts like full speed but backwards?

[Realspace]

if you could add a full reverse so when you go full reverse it acts like full speed but backwards?

I could do it for the full newtonian to help braking the ship since lateral and vertical thrusters are unusable, but not for the assisted engines.

Keep in mind that now the engines are much more different so upgrading to a better engine means having a much more manouvrable ship as it had to be!

There are 3 class of engines, I split more their features so if you want the speed you have an engine with a lot of back and frontal acceleration, if you want the manouvrable then you have beter inertia dumpner, so easier to move on lateral/vertical thrusters, or you have a balance.

So please report exactly which engine you use

[Deleted User]

Would it be possible to put full-fledged newtonian flight for all ships?

[Privata]

Would it be possible to put full-fledged newtonian flight for all ships?

I did that as a test.
and guess what?
The Ai is actualy very good at it , they seem to split along and turn in your direction and shoot at you like in the remake of BSG.

[Realspace]

Would it be possible to put full-fledged newtonian flight for all ships?

I did that as a test.
and guess what?
The Ai is actualy very good at it , they seem to split along and turn in your direction and shoot at you like in the remake of BSG.

really!!!?? good..that was preventing me from doing it, the fact that normally AI is scripted around the physics the devs put so if you add all that strafing NPC ships get on crashing anywhere...please test it further and report. I think we can combine the mods.

I was considering to change other ships too. Not at a full newtonian flight but increasing a lot 1) strafing and 2) top speed. That would make them much more dangerous for the player.

Weapon range has to be increased too. That is is easy to do, and there are already some mods.

[Privata]

ok np.
as of yet I only tested it on S class ships , and I stop testing last night when I got the enemies not doing anything (stoping in mid space) during a station defense mission.

however it seems it might be a vanilla bug as well.

what I did is I used the templates you maid for the player engines and gave them to S ships.

So I will resume testing

[Realspace]

however it seems it might be a vanilla bug as well.

I think too. It happens too often to me too. They sit there doing nothing. Then you shoot and only at the end they remember to shoot back. Quite weird

I wrote a short surviving guide for those players not used to realistic inertial flight, see the home