It is IMPERATIVE that you get the Workshop up and running!

[Hellaciouss]

Most if not all of the people here see it from the user end. This is a modding forum. The people here will see it from the other end, from the provider's perspective. And workshop isn't as good as nexus for mod providers. Thus you're not gonna find much enthusiasm for it here.

That's a matter of personal opinion, one some modders may share with you, but others won't. Some modders may not like the membership issue of nexus, or the fact that there is no auto-update through nexus, or the fact few people even know it (nexus) exists. It's also very easy to publish through Steam and the fact that there is no silly bandwidth restrictions like nexus. Many people don't want to have to sign up to yet another website with some paywalled features.

Anyway, anyone who wants to use nexus is fine to use nexus, but they need to get the workshop going so those who prefer Workshop can get their mods published through the workshop and available to more people than nexus would ever dream of reaching.

Also, I don't get the hostility. We're all on the same team here, trying to make this game better, something that could take EGOSoft a long while to do as they are beholden to the publisher and modders aren't.

The hostility comes from people being intent on giving the modders more work than they already have. The workshop is without any doubt less convenient from a modder's perspective compared to the nexus. Many modder here don't like being told by players that they are entitled to a system that causes modders more work and is a hassle to maintain.

But as we're clearly on opposite ends of the spectrum of opinions here, I'm going to now leave this topic and let you discuss this to all hell with other people while I do some actual modding instead.

No one is telling the modders where to publish their work. They can publish their work any where they please. EGOSoft has said they will be adding Workshop support, all I am doing is stressing that they do it ASAP because mods are going to be the lifeblood of this game since EGOSoft failed to deliver what was expected of them. Opening the workshop will ultimately lead to more modders and more game sales.

I had not demanded anywhere that all modders should switch to the Workshop so I not sure why you are being this hostile about it. No one is giving modders 'extra work'. Modders are free to do as they wish when they wish how they wish. Some of us just don't like nexus and you seem very intent on promoting a website with a paywall and limited bandwidth for some reason...Do you have connections with the site? This is quite disturbing.

You have also yet to define any extra hassle that would pop up because of the Workshop, just that 'there would be'. The workshop is not a hassle for those who know how to use it - it's actually an awesome distribution tool and a great way to ensure everyone has up to date mods for those who choose to use it.

But again, no one is here asking that the Workshop be the only place modders should publish their mods, we're simply asking for the option that EGOSoft said would be implemented now rather than a year down the road as they have really messed up with X Rebirth and I believe a strong, vast modding community is the only thing that can fix a lot of it - and that is what the workshop would provide, a much larger modding community.

[Gazz]

I would prefer to publish through the forums.

No one stops you. =)

A forum topic with a DL Link is all it takes.

The current mod list topic (thanks, ioae =) will do for now but when we have a better idea of how all the pieces fit together, we'll have to create a new one with whatever organisation we decide on.

I had not demanded anywhere that all modders should switch to the Workshop so I not sure why you are being this hostile about it.

Who is being hostile?
Some said they are unlikely to use it and that's their decision.

[Eliyan]

In all seriousness, how is Nexus better for modders than Workshop?

Allowing for multiple Versions and optional files alone make it better. Workshop is extremely simplified and people will easily end up subscribing to incompatible or out-of-date mods and then bother the modder with that.

It also makes users less likely to read the instructions for a mod if everything is automated. This may not directly harm the modder, but it can get really annoying for them especially since they are also much easier to harrass if their steam username is right next to the mod.

That's just my opinion though and I'm not really a modder aside from some tinkering I did in X2 and X3 ages ago.

[Tommety]

Since I only used the nexus for Skyrim mostly (as appears to be the case for Nexus in general) I'll stick to my experience from that in my rebuttals.

Nevertheless Workshop was a superior method for obtaining mods regardless of ones interest or computer skill. Auto updates alone are pretty huge.

Humbug... auto updates mean that you can magically run into a broken game because critical files are being overwritten. Animation mods are notorious for this. Having to manually update doesn't prevent conflicts but make them much more traceable.

I have little interest in following 15-20 different mod threads for updates.

While my rebuttal may seem to reinforce your argument. But if you are a light mod user, sure, auto updates are unlikely to affect you. But aside from texture mods, I'm already running 15 animation mods, a plethora of skill mods, including perk overhauls. A multitude AI changers. If any of these were to auto update at once...phew... good luck finding the culprit, or even fixing it because it ll just update right back if I don't outright delete it.

ADDIT: Also, if you use the nexus mod manager it will also keep track of updates available for the mods you have downloaded with an easily identifiable exclamation.

No need to futz with a Nexus membership (ugh)

I enjoy this argument, you do realise you need a much more extensive account to use the STEAM workshop right? While I'm not sure since I've been using Nexus for years: I recall being able to download well before making an account, but those were them olden days long past.

Bear in minds auto updates are useful for the mod author too since you don't have to deal with people using outdated versions of the mod ;p

Until you have gamers coming over to complain how your update killed their game due to sudden incompatibilities. Which despite not being your fault, will still be blamed on you. This is less the case if you have downloaded the update manually first.

Honestly it is and always has been up to mod authors to alert users to compatibility issues, it's kind of important.

This is rather simple to state. This may be nice and well if the game only has a few dozen mods to begin with. But games like Skyrim have a plethora of mods and modders are unlikely to be using every single mod at the same time.

But at the end of the day, I'm not saying there SHOULDN'T be a workshop, but it certainly isn't as aweseome as you make it out to be.

It's also very easy to publish through Steam and the fact that there is no silly bandwidth restrictions like nexus

True, there are no bandwith restrictions with Workshop. Instead you have a file size limit that makes anything beyond single item mods likely too large to upload. You won't find extensive texture packs on the workshop, nor any large overhaul.

A Skyrim example that can't be hosted on Workshop: Falskaar. A moderate DLC sized mod. Only additional compatibility files are available on the workshop because the file itself is too large.

So it's a choice you make here, pay a small fee (for the price of one game you have a life time membership) and have unlimited size mods with optimal download speed, or be restricted to smaller mods only.

To put it simply: if a workshop comes for XR, I doubt it would be able to host any expansion mods like X-tended etc.

[Jack08]

One thing i'd like to add to the above post:
We can get Nexus Mod Manager support if we request it. That will allow for updating without having to track threads, and without automatically forcing updates on you ether.

All in all, Nexus > Steam for many diffrent reasons just listed, but one of the most major i need to re-iterate:

100mb max file limit.
X mods in general, stretching back to even X2, reach 100mb in size VERY fast. Its a fact of X. Steam is not going to be very useful when mods get to this point, and they will.

Mod visibility is also low on steam, a mod could be added and you will never know, steams interface is horribly unresponsive and counter-intuitive alot of the time, and, you need a program (steam itself) to run it, whereas nexus is a website (and an application IF you want it to be, but its not necessary)

You have no control over steam, you cant control what it does with the files its downloading, you are at its mercy, you cant have multiple game installs you cant do alot of things that you can do without it. It is not helpful to modders or serious players in the slightest.

[dionnsai]

Nexus all the way.

I've extensively used mods through both steam workshop and nexus and I have to say that once you've really delved into it, Nexus is by far the superior of the two.

Steam is unfortunately the fast food version, yeah, it's quick and easy for users but only those users who really are not going to look beyond the quick fix.

Also seems like Nexus really gives a solid point of interaction between the modder and those of us who are using their mods. As for the money thing, why is everyone so burned by the idea that someone might make a buck? We've all got to buy diapers at some point and the durn things aren't cheap.

Now what I would really like to see is Nexus Mod Manager up and running with Rebirth. NMM is such an excellent tool for managing and toggling mods. I know the list of games NMM supports is pretty small and I have no idea what it takes to get Rebirth included, but I would wear it out if it was!


For the ultimate comparison, take any game that has mod support in both steam and nexus and compare the depth, quantity and type of mods available in each. It becomes pretty clear very quickly that Nexus is the tool that most modders prefer over Workshop, and in the end, that's what's most important, because they're the ones doing the work. And you, John Q. User do not have to have a nexus account to download if you don't want one.

[Tommety]

Now what I would really like to see is Nexus Mod Manager up and running with Rebirth. NMM is such an excellent tool for managing and toggling mods. I know the list of games NMM supports is pretty small and I have no idea what it takes to get Rebirth included, but I would wear it out if it was!

If I look at the game structure and how mods are added and how you had the X mod manager already for the X3 series etc: I think NMM support is very doable, it may require an alternative processing and therefore time to get it up and running, but it should be doable.

Of course, this is assuming mod usage/installation has remained largely the same as the previous titles. Considering this is NOT X4 as we are so often told (but no one accepts as a valid explaination) this could of course no longer be the case.

[Hellaciouss]

Since I only used the nexus for Skyrim mostly (as appears to be the case for Nexus in general) I'll stick to my experience from that in my rebuttals.

Nevertheless Workshop was a superior method for obtaining mods regardless of ones interest or computer skill. Auto updates alone are pretty huge.

Humbug... auto updates mean that you can magically run into a broken game because critical files are being overwritten. Animation mods are notorious for this. Having to manually update doesn't prevent conflicts but make them much more traceable.

I have little interest in following 15-20 different mod threads for updates.

While my rebuttal may seem to reinforce your argument. But if you are a light mod user, sure, auto updates are unlikely to affect you. But aside from texture mods, I'm already running 15 animation mods, a plethora of skill mods, including perk overhauls. A multitude AI changers. If any of these were to auto update at once...phew... good luck finding the culprit, or even fixing it because it ll just update right back if I don't outright delete it.

ADDIT: Also, if you use the nexus mod manager it will also keep track of updates available for the mods you have downloaded with an easily identifiable exclamation.

No need to futz with a Nexus membership (ugh)

I enjoy this argument, you do realise you need a much more extensive account to use the STEAM workshop right? While I'm not sure since I've been using Nexus for years: I recall being able to download well before making an account, but those were them olden days long past.

Bear in minds auto updates are useful for the mod author too since you don't have to deal with people using outdated versions of the mod ;p

Until you have gamers coming over to complain how your update killed their game due to sudden incompatibilities. Which despite not being your fault, will still be blamed on you. This is less the case if you have downloaded the update manually first.

Honestly it is and always has been up to mod authors to alert users to compatibility issues, it's kind of important.

This is rather simple to state. This may be nice and well if the game only has a few dozen mods to begin with. But games like Skyrim have a plethora of mods and modders are unlikely to be using every single mod at the same time.

But at the end of the day, I'm not saying there SHOULDN'T be a workshop, but it certainly isn't as aweseome as you make it out to be.

It's also very easy to publish through Steam and the fact that there is no silly bandwidth restrictions like nexus

True, there are no bandwith restrictions with Workshop. Instead you have a file size limit that makes anything beyond single item mods likely too large to upload. You won't find extensive texture packs on the workshop, nor any large overhaul.

A Skyrim example that can't be hosted on Workshop: Falskaar. A moderate DLC sized mod. Only additional compatibility files are available on the workshop because the file itself is too large.

So it's a choice you make here, pay a small fee (for the price of one game you have a life time membership) and have unlimited size mods with optimal download speed, or be restricted to smaller mods only.

To put it simply: if a workshop comes for XR, I doubt it would be able to host any expansion mods like X-tended etc.

I don't think you've actually used much of the workshop just judging from your post.

1. Auto-update IS huge. It doesn't matter if it is auto updated or not, you install the mod, you run the risk of messing something up. Mods usually often add disclaimers in their write up of the mods anyway. You can remove the mod either way reguardless if there is an autoupdate or not.

2. There is no real limit to mod size on Steam.

You can do the following:

Make a workshop collection.
Upload your stuff in so many parts as you need to.
Then make all those parts "invisible" so no one can see and subscribe to them.
Include all your parts in the collection you made and disable the option which says something like "let the user select which one of the collection's addons he wants to subscribe to".
If you disabled this option, the user can only subscribe to the whole collection, therefore downloading all your content at once. Plus, the user can't subscribe to the content parts separately, because he can't see them.

Very easy to do.

Anyway, again, if someone wants to use a 3rd party website, that's fine, more power to them! But they really should get the workshop up as soon as they can.