So how good is this game now after patching?

General discussions about X Rebirth.

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SirConnery
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So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by SirConnery » Mon, 10. Dec 18, 09:19

The initial release of the game seemed to spawn lots of bad reviews and I decided against buying the game. Right now though, I can't seem to find a consensus on how good the game is after patching. Is it X3 good or close to it?

I'm a newcomer to to these games really. I was looking forward to buying myself X Foundations for christmas but after seeing the visual style of the game I was really put off from that game (no disrespect to the artists involved).

I'm mostly interested in the economic aspect of the game. Is the UI interface easy to use? And for any veterans, what are the main differences between X3 and Rebirth? For last request, if somebody interested could do just do a pro/cons rundown of the game in it's current state that would be nice.

radcapricorn
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by radcapricorn » Mon, 10. Dec 18, 20:19

Rebirth is not X3, not even close, and it wasn't supposed to be, just as it's name suggests. You can only fly one ship (but I assume you're aware of that). The universe is "smaller" in that there are fewer distinct zones as compared to sectors in X3. There is no armament selection to speak of: there are a few weapons for player ship to choose from, and all the other ships are pre-configured with some standard loadout, the only difference you can make there is to choose not to install full armaments when the ship is built. Traveling is very different, at least until you acquire your first capital ship or complete a lengthy side quest. Lastly, there is no "end game" to this game: stations cannot be fully destroyed, only damaged for a while, so you can't wipe out sectors. Although, admittedly, similar could be said about X3, the difference being that X3 just respawned some core stations after a while. That said, since ruthless carnage isn't your goal anyway, there's plenty to have fun with in Rebirth.

Most people complain about the game's economy, how it's "crippled" from the start. What those people miss is the challenge: actually starting up your own empire under those conditions, and finding ways to supply required materials. There is more than one, especially with both DLCs installed, one just needs to find them. Also, it differs between campaign and free play starts, since you will have different levels of access to component producers. Building up a fully functioning supply chain for a certain ware could end up being more challenging than in X3, just due to the resource and production requirements. Although, once you have the foundations of one chain built up and running, branching out into different products becomes much easier, if you're able to throttle your basic resource production (and sales) accordingly.

Long story short, you tend to get more involved into management than you would in X3, at least until you have a good supply base of basic construction resources. Doing things (semi-) manually seems to be the motto of the game anyway: you don't have the familiar auto-traders (i.e. Trade Software Mk3 and Commodity Logistics Software), and are supposed to schedule trades for your ships. It's not necessarily a "bad thing", but surely gets tedious as you expand your fleet. But the thing is, you don't really need an automated trading fleet in this game, not a large one anyway. There's plenty of ways of making a profit, and in my latest playthrough I found staggered/accelerated development quite interesting: i.e. I want to build station A, that will require some 15-20 million for a construction ship, a certain amount of resources, and a few trade ships to assign to that station. So instead of relying on passive income I'd just go out and find ways to make that initial quota as fast as possible with whatever means the game allows: finding lucrative trades (and improving them), missions, piracy... There's even an outright cheesy way of making hundreds of millions in a very short time that only requires some asteroids and patience. Instead of waiting for those fusion reactors to appear on the market, I'll go and find ways to procure them as fast as possible, be it feeding the NPC producers, stalking Teladi pirates, or just, well, "liberating" the wares. And so on and so forth. So instead of relying on a huge wallet to do anything I want, instead I found it quite fun to just go and make things happen.

Setting up more than one fully functional station can become a chore though: at the minimum you would need one ship with three important crew members (an engineer, a defence officer and an architect; the captain isn't as important as that ship won't be doing much traveling), plus you'll need a manager and a defence officer for the station itself, and also a specialist. That's at least six recruits to find. More if your station would require it's own trade ships. The mini-game to reveal skills of prospective employees gets old really fast, and doing it at least six times per each station you build is just annoying (and usually it's more because good luck finding decently skilled personnel on the first try). I usually just take a break and do something else in game for a while until I'm ready to waste some more time on that silly "catch-the-pixel" game accompanied by cheesy dialogue. The developers tried to mitigate shortage of skilled employees by introducing training seminars, but unfortunately those are locked behind that same silly mini-game, an extended variant of it to boot.

Commanding a large navy is... not very well implemented, to put it lightly. The game has a seemingly solid idea of creating squads so that you only command a few squad leaders. But it's implemented in a very bulky and uncomfortable way, and often I find it just easier to manually select required ships and broadcast orders to them directly. The navy itself is most likely to consist only of capital ships, because fighter craft are at a severe travel disadvantage in this game: they can't jump or dock at a carrier, and thus will always be left behind. So the only practical use for them is perpetual service as local security, which is sad as I find large skirmishes of fighter craft actually quite spectacular to watch.
Resupplying a fleet is pretty much also a manual chore (except for missiles), although repairs at least are more or less automated, provided you do find 5-star-skill engineers for all your ships.
Boarding is trivial compared to X3, with little practice you can capture any eligible ship, only a select few would actually require involved preparations.

The map isn't very helpful for decision-making, as it doesn't reflect the situation very well, and sometimes is outright misleading.

Most of the above can be mitigated one way or another with mods, of course.

All in all, the game isn't bad for a fresh experience, but if you expect playing it like X3, I wouldn't recommend it. It is quite fun to discover it as it's own game though, and it certainly is rewarding towards being creative in your strategies.

SirConnery
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by SirConnery » Tue, 11. Dec 18, 04:44

Thanks for the reply. Lots of helpful information there.

The one ship thing is not that much of a deal breaker for me. And understanding from your reply the economy game is just what I'm looking for.

One thing I really would like to know is if the universe is "alive" so to say? Fleets engaging other fleets and taking over sectors. I don't really care if it's the base game or with mods.
Do you actually have to participate or allocate funds in your sectors defence if you build a station there? Or will the station pretty much always be safe?

Lastly, what is your recommendation on X Foundation vs Rebirth if you have played it? Probably at this point I'm going with Rebirth either way, but I always enjoy reading reviews from people that have sinked hours into the game of a specific genre that I don't know that much about.

radcapricorn
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by radcapricorn » Tue, 11. Dec 18, 04:59

As I said, in vanilla game no one can take over sectors due to the station immortality. That said, factions do engage each other on occastion, although perhaps most noticeable of all are pirates local to each sector. There aren't really invasions a-la "hey this Split M7 with full escort just randomly decided to show up in a Boron system and shoot stuff up". Like in X3, there are regions where you can build safely, and there are ones where you'd be constantly pestered by pirates or Xenon, or maybe even some visiting vessels from an "enemy" faction. As building goes, the "location, location, location" principle stands strong.

With mods though you can liven up the universe quite considerably, especially if you look at the overhauls like the Conquest and War or The New Frontier. In either of those, defending your stuff becomes much more of a necessity regardless of where you build.

I can't honestly compare Rebirth to X4 though, I haven't played the latter myself yet as it's not out for my OS still.

Benzin
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by Benzin » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 07:29

Maybe its because i dint play any of the other X games before Rebirth so i dint have expectations or some idea of what "it should be". But i find the game VERY enjoyable. Its fair to say i like it, a lot.
There are a few things that are repetitive and even annoying as hell (like 99% of the NPCs). But with just a few simple mods 90% of those things go away.
Personally i dint even feel the need for major mods as the ones the person in the previous post mentioned (though they do sound interesting!). I am perfectly happy with:
Just a few small mods like Flyby suscribe - remove the need to play minigames to place trade agents, Flyby scan - remove the need to scan stations piece by piece, and a couple others.

So in short, to answer your question:
IMHO, its very good.

SirConnery
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by SirConnery » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 09:52

I will be purchasing it myself on the steam christmas sale most likely. The UI is usually the biggest hurdle in economic games cause they never work similar to any other games and are usually really clunky.

Bozz11
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by Bozz11 » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 21:25

It's good if you don't mind having only one ship to fly even if the cap bridge mod is great !!
But right now I'm playing xR waiting for x4 to be improved a bit more ^^
xR is in my opinion one of the best space strategy games out there ^^ not much competition as there is no other game like this except the other x games :D

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chobbler
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by chobbler » Wed, 12. Dec 18, 21:39

I must admit, I trashed X Rebirth as much as anybody in the past. I've recently taken another look at and I'm really enjoying it now. It's a gazillion times better than the last time I played it, (4 years ago probably).

The attention to detail is amazing, I'm having great fun with it.

I was that frustrated with it in the early days I almot permantly deleted it from my Steam library! I'm soooooooo glad I didn't now :D

Out of respect and acknowledgement to Egosoft for making good in the end, I've paid full wedge for X4 on Steam rather than wait for it to go on sale.
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by TerrorTrooper » Wed, 19. Dec 18, 21:39

chobbler wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 21:39
I must admit, I trashed X Rebirth as much as anybody in the past. I've recently taken another look at and I'm really enjoying it now. It's a gazillion times better than the last time I played it, (4 years ago probably).

The attention to detail is amazing, I'm having great fun with it.

I was that frustrated with it in the early days I almot permantly deleted it from my Steam library! I'm soooooooo glad I didn't now :D

Out of respect and acknowledgement to Egosoft for making good in the end, I've paid full wedge for X4 on Steam rather than wait for it to go on sale.
Coincidentally, i did exactly the same, Threw about 20 hours at XR on release, found it was a steaming pile of bugs and just an overall mess.
Went back to it a couple of months ago in preperation of X4 as i expected there to be crossovers, and to be fair, as long as you realise its not X3, its actually a decent game! im 200 hours into it only now running out of things to do due to the games limitations.

its actually a shame X4 isnt more like XR! I kind of expected X4 to have Rebirth's Awesome visuals, attention to detail , vast and varied sectors, Awesome cap ships and some of its better UI and design choices combined with X3's Freedom, complexity and variety.
What we got was, for the most part, vastly inferior to either gsame.

tashine2000
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by tashine2000 » Sat, 12. Jan 19, 15:44

I think it's now fantastic (modded). It does take effort to learn the UI so patience is needed.

I recently started a new game (my first was campaign) and really enjoyed my second playthrough so far. I actually stopped playing XR to play X4 for awhile but have since found myself drawn back to the old XR for what I think is a greater sense of scale (of ships) and more individual (mainly DLC) sectors. Most of the larger X4 ships are also currently uninspired compared with XR models.

Buzz2005
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by Buzz2005 » Sun, 13. Jan 19, 21:02

Benzin wrote:
Wed, 12. Dec 18, 07:29
Maybe its because i dint play any of the other X games before Rebirth so i dint have expectations or some idea of what "it should be". But i find the game VERY enjoyable. Its fair to say i like it, a lot.
There are a few things that are repetitive and even annoying as hell (like 99% of the NPCs). But with just a few simple mods 90% of those things go away.
Personally i dint even feel the need for major mods as the ones the person in the previous post mentioned (though they do sound interesting!). I am perfectly happy with:
Just a few small mods like Flyby suscribe - remove the need to play minigames to place trade agents, Flyby scan - remove the need to scan stations piece by piece, and a couple others.

So in short, to answer your question:
IMHO, its very good.
after some time you will definitely want to install CWIR, vanilla is pretty frustrating in some aspects so some mods are a must, you will find out when playing
CWIR just puts war in to overdrive and watching those huge ships fighting is like art :D
TO bad they shit the bed with x4 and large ships, dont mind the graphics that much but the underwhelming sensation you get from L ships is kind of killing it
Fixed credits not being able to claim abandoned ships sometimes getting stuck when boarding operation sometimes getting some owner other than the player builds a station module or surface element.

Sin316
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by Sin316 » Sun, 13. Jan 19, 22:55

X4 is such a disappointment in its current state, it made me install and play Rebirth.
Mind you, I played it at released and quickly gave up on it, because, well, you all know why ^^.
Haven't ever really gave it another go.
But now, wow, playing it I am actually enjoying it. A lot. Couple QoL mods installed and off I went.
And I am actually playing the campaign lol. Which now seems to work ^^.

But the worst is, this actually puts X4 to shame in almost every aspect.

The only thing that X4 has over Rebirth, IMHO, is the "fly everything".

But if "everything" is crap, well...

anyway, playing Rebirth, now I am finally realising, that X4 feels like the Bastard child of X3 and Rebirth, with the best parts cut off and some crap added on top of it.

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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by dizzy » Wed, 16. Jan 19, 04:13

I've put about 100h into Rebirth and I disagree that X-Rebirth puts X4 to shame in almost every aspect. There are lots of things better in current (5 years patched) X-Rebirth than X4, but that's not a surprise, let's see how X4 is in 5 years from now.

I played about 50h in X4 after release and because of all the bugs with it I took a break and went and gave Rebirth another try, this time not expecting it to be X3 sequel (since I already had X4 for that) which helped the experience but:
- it has a MUCH worse UI compared to X4, it's actually worse than X3 (which was already a low standard for how to design UI in a complex game, but X3 has many other good things so it compensates)
- the process flow for doing many things is very counterintuitive and results in a huge number of clicks/animations/wasted time, for example, in order to repair a ship you have to find a shipyard on the map and enter communications with it and then tell them to repair the ship which results in your ship flying there and getting repaired (wth, what's wrong with taking the ship you want to repair, order it to repair, select known shipyard to repair to, done)
- no way to automate many common tasks, tasks that become much more frequent as the player empire grows; to me that's a critical ingredient of X games, being able to pay some money to save on manual tasks; for example, you are supposed to dock to every station to get trade updates, instead of for example X3 or X4 where you just need to have property in the area (and then you can automate things in X3 with explorer software and dropping satellites automatically); or not having automated traders
- no spacewalk (I don't care much about not being able to fly other ships in Rebirth since every time I play X3 I spend most of my time in one good M6 and the Albion Skunk is a similarly good combat ship, but I do find spacewalk immersive, especially when funny things happen)
- some of docks in Rebirth were immersive (you could see the world outside) but most aren't, X4 is just much more immersive how all docks are setup, specially when doing silly things like docking on capitals in flight

Those items may seem like just a few but they are general issues that affect almost every second I spend in the game so they have a large impact on the experience. There are mods that can help with some of these issues but unfortunately not sufficiently so (and there's no reason to think X4 won't get some high quality mods too).

Things I liked in Rebirth over X3 so far:
- much improved boarding mechanics (I welcome having to shoot down surface elements of ships, one of my favorite mechanics in good old Freespace games); similar improved mechanics in X4
- makes space feel bigger flying through larger sectors between zones (to those that are complaining that Rebirth is much smaller than X3, I find Rebirth zones comparable to X3 sector and there are lots of zones in it, at least with the DLCs); note that X4 is even better in this regard with the way space is organized
- station building/planning is easier although more restricted in a way compared to X3... and it's just awesome in X4
- I thouroughly enjoyed the brave decision of making most of known space enemy to the player in the plot (I hear lots of people hated that but I enjoyed it because it forced me to play a much more aggressive game than I would have otherwise); no X4 plot tho :( (to be worth talking about)
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Alan Phipps
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 16. Jan 19, 16:16

@ Sin316: Let's not get bogged down here in comparing XR with X4 or vice versa. If anything, the OP was asking about comparing XR with X3 games.
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SirConnery
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Re: So how good is this game now after patching?

Post by SirConnery » Fri, 25. Jan 19, 23:39

Alan Phipps wrote:
Wed, 16. Jan 19, 16:16
@ Sin316: Let's not get bogged down here in comparing XR with X4 or vice versa. If anything, the OP was asking about comparing XR with X3 games.
I don't mind. XR vs X4 discussion in this thread is fine by me.

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