Will there be done something about DeVries Economy?

[UniTrader]

....
DeVries is just a playground for the player to spend time.

i think CBJ wrote somewhere that exactly this is the intention behind DV...

[A5PECT]

In-universe lore heavily implies a broken/barely-functioning economy for DeVries, i.e. things are working as the devs intended.

I don't see a problem with the area as is. It adds a bit of variety to the universe, sitting between developed Albion/Omicron Lyrae and the complete wasteland of Maelstrom. It's a good location for the player to build a self-contained economic system of his or her own, with lots of natural resources and space available and a modest military challenge posed by the Reiver presence.

Based on the events of the XR plot, I imagine DeVries establishing a more working economy in the future. By that time, the gate network will have expanded, allowing newly-added sectors to fill the role DeVries does in XR.

[Snafu_X3]

I don't see a problem with the area as is. It adds a bit of variety to the universe, sitting between developed Albion/Omicron Lyrae and the complete wasteland of Maelstrom. I

Umm.. have you found a gate none of us are aware of? From DV you have to go (a long way) through OL to get to Maelstrom, is my understanding.. although if DV had a 'backdoor' to Maelstrom it would solve a few questions & make gameplay a little more interesting..

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

A5PECT mean that figuratively rather than literally. As in, DV is between them if either occupy opposite ends of the development spectrum

[SyberSmoke]

....
DeVries is just a playground for the player to spend time.

i think CBJ wrote somewhere that exactly this is the intention behind DV...

The problem is, while you can build stations there is a hole in it. It is just deeper then game play, it is psychological. You take this time to build the stations and get things going but they are not doing anything to also help them selves. There is no recognition of your efforts like "We of the Canterran people thank you for the Refined Metals this station will make." It is a sandbox missing half the sand and a bucket.

Early in my playing of the game I knew this would be the way it is. Once the scripting is done, with out something to fill that hole...what is the point after? Not to much. I believe this is a point the developers need to take to heart, there needs to be some feedback. Something in the game that says "We appreciate you building that, now we can rebuild this." So that it feels you, the player, has some impact on the universe instead it having that empty feeling you get from that 57th raid run through Molten Core.

[jkflipflop98]

DeVries is SUPPOSED to be dead. If you want to build where there's a fully-functional economy around, build your stuff in Commerce Core. If you want to build your own entire empire from start to finish, you build in DeVries. Don't demand that every zone be turned into albion just for your own personal wants.

The only part of all this I actually agree with is replacing the NPC CVs.

• Beta 3 Fixed NPC built stations in the plot from sometimes never being completed by allowing a new builder ship to be ordered.

can someone check this out, it doesn't seam to work for me

As I understand, the CV has to make it to the build spot and actually begin construction. If it's blown up after that, you can send another CV to the spot and have them continue on. Unfortunately, it doesn't help at all if the CV's are destroyed on their way to the site. You're still boned.

[SyberSmoke]

DeVries is SUPPOSED to be dead. If you want to build where there's a fully-functional economy around, build your stuff in Commerce Core. If you want to build your own entire empire from start to finish, you build in DeVries. Don't demand that every zone be turned into albion just for your own personal wants.

The only part of all this I actually agree with is replacing the NPC CVs.

• Beta 3 Fixed NPC built stations in the plot from sometimes never being completed by allowing a new builder ship to be ordered.

can someone check this out, it doesn't seam to work for me

As I understand, the CV has to make it to the build spot and actually begin construction. If it's blown up after that, you can send another CV to the spot and have them continue on. Unfortunately, it doesn't help at all if the CV's are destroyed on their way to the site. You're still boned.

It is not about turning DeVries into Albion. It is that at the core of the problem, once you get there, once trade opens, the Canterans do not do anything to help them selves even though they now have access to resources.

There is no sense they want to improve their situation in and out of the plot. But it is there desire in the plot to get stronger, to fix their failing economy...but there is nothing in the game that pushes for that goal.

[BlackRain]

DeVries is SUPPOSED to be dead. If you want to build where there's a fully-functional economy around, build your stuff in Commerce Core. If you want to build your own entire empire from start to finish, you build in DeVries. Don't demand that every zone be turned into albion just for your own personal wants.

The only part of all this I actually agree with is replacing the NPC CVs.

• Beta 3 Fixed NPC built stations in the plot from sometimes never being completed by allowing a new builder ship to be ordered.

can someone check this out, it doesn't seam to work for me

As I understand, the CV has to make it to the build spot and actually begin construction. If it's blown up after that, you can send another CV to the spot and have them continue on. Unfortunately, it doesn't help at all if the CV's are destroyed on their way to the site. You're still boned.

It is not about turning DeVries into Albion. It is that at the core of the problem, once you get there, once trade opens, the Canterans do not do anything to help them selves even though they now have access to resources.

There is no sense they want to improve their situation in and out of the plot. But it is there desire in the plot to get stronger, to fix their failing economy...but there is nothing in the game that pushes for that goal.

But don't they say they need people like "you" to jumpstart their economy. I guess they are relying on you to do it, that is their goal heh

[SyberSmoke]

As I understand, the CV has to make it to the build spot and actually begin construction. If it's blown up after that, you can send another CV to the spot and have them continue on. Unfortunately, it doesn't help at all if the CV's are destroyed on their way to the site. You're still boned.

It is not about turning DeVries into Albion. It is that at the core of the problem, once you get there, once trade opens, the Canterans do not do anything to help them selves even though they now have access to resources.

There is no sense they want to improve their situation in and out of the plot. But it is there desire in the plot to get stronger, to fix their failing economy...but there is nothing in the game that pushes for that goal.

But don't they say they need people like "you" to jumpstart their economy. I guess they are relying on you to do it, that is their goal heh[/quote]

That may be he goal but to make it worth while there still could be some interaction from the Canterans. Say mission from them acquiring a CV so before they jump it in they would like you to bring in some resources. Or...clear the area they want to build in of pirates. Or go to Albion and get an Architect or two as they are not familiar with Albion CV's.

Something a little more then them sticking their finger up their noses and leaving everything to the player.

[BlackRain]

As I understand, the CV has to make it to the build spot and actually begin construction. If it's blown up after that, you can send another CV to the spot and have them continue on. Unfortunately, it doesn't help at all if the CV's are destroyed on their way to the site. You're still boned.

It is not about turning DeVries into Albion. It is that at the core of the problem, once you get there, once trade opens, the Canterans do not do anything to help them selves even though they now have access to resources.

There is no sense they want to improve their situation in and out of the plot. But it is there desire in the plot to get stronger, to fix their failing economy...but there is nothing in the game that pushes for that goal.

But don't they say they need people like "you" to jumpstart their economy. I guess they are relying on you to do it, that is their goal heh

That may be he goal but to make it worth while there still could be some interaction from the Canterans. Say mission from them acquiring a CV so before they jump it in they would like you to bring in some resources. Or...clear the area they want to build in of pirates. Or go to Albion and get an Architect or two as they are not familiar with Albion CV's.

Something a little more then them sticking their finger up their noses and leaving everything to the player.[/quote]

Hehe, I said that with tongue in cheek. I do not want too much done with Devries, but I agree that some things should happen.

[SyberSmoke]

Hehe, I said that with tongue in cheek. I do not want too much done with Devries, but I agree that some things should happen.

Well of coarse, DeVries should not change over night. But yeah more interaction on the par of the Canterans and the universe in general would not be a bad thing to make it all feel a little more...alive.

[GrafSchlaf]

In freeplay another or bigger sink would be needed than the quite small shipyard.
Currently drones and fusion reactors are getting sold nearly in an instant but weapons/missiles/forcefield generators/reinforced metal platings are completely stacking up and stopping the production in my stations for some hours.

Also I've not seen the shipyard building an NPC ship for some hours, it once did build a Sucellus around 12 hours playtime ago.
The two small ship factories are kinda working. But one is also stuck at a building cycle for 75 Hayabusas, probably because there are 5 in stock and this is considered as a full storage for them. I have no clue.

DeVries seems kinda clumsy, even if you provide every resource or product it demands.

[A5PECT]

Also I've not seen the shipyard building an NPC ship for some hours...

I think shipyards only build ships to replace ones that have been destroyed. Canteran military ships only patrol Glaring Truth, and since Reiver capital ships don't spawn there (outside of missions) they are rarely destroyed.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

Devs have said that the DV shipyard operates on a much slower NPC ship construction timescale to other ships. Specifically, the pause between potentially building an NPC is much longer. This has some pros as well as cons.

1. More likely that at a given time, the shipyard is likely free for player use.
2. Slower rate of locally rare resource depletion (e.g. RMP, BOW etc.).
3. Less sink effect so player-generated resources are purchased less often.

[GrafSchlaf]

Devs have said that the DV shipyard operates on a much slower NPC ship construction timescale to other ships. Specifically, the pause between potentially building an NPC is much longer.

Ah I remember, totally forgot about this.
But now that I can supply the shipyard for massproduction of Sucellus and L sized ships it could build faster again

Anyways, it's kinda weird that one of the small shipyards is stuck at the cycle for 75 Hayabusas. And it's slightly annoying that the only thing consuming wares is the other small shipyard, which does not need any weapons since S/M ships don't require weapons or force field generators to build, even if they have some (integrated ones) on board. Thats probably due to balancing the economy, plus smaller ships are not using the standard turrets but some kind of integrated weaponry (which may could be converted turrets lore wise).
But that they require absolutely no weaponry or force field generators
and very low amounts of other resources seems strange.

I'll check out if the the stuck Hayabusa cycle will start if I buy all available Hayabusas at the shipyard this evening.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

The Hayabusas thing sounds odd _ i would imagine more could be stored in the station. Are you sure that the station has all the ingredients needed for their production? lacking something, like RMP or Fusion Rectors, is a common cause of stuck ship production.

[SyberSmoke]

Shipyard logic is a little silly. Personally I think they need to put in a check before building a ship to see if there are materials in their first before attempting to build something.

Something silly like the manager walking over to the storage bays and looking at the empty spaces before going "No guys sorry, we can not build this, keep all the docks free." And the same would apply to the S/M yard to...yes it builds in batches...but still if you do not have the parts...why even start building it.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

Agreed

[GrafSchlaf]

After buying all 3 available Hayabusas production of the 75 batch started.
Due to my stupidity I missed to check how many are in the storage after the cycle. The old problem of cycle is still there, if the storage of the product from a cycle is full it will halt the production until it is free again, instead of skipping this cycle and going to the next batch of products. Changing this behaviour probably would help with some economical problems.

Regarding the building start without resources:
The HvA shipyard has a stuck Arawn at 43% while the SY has a bit of everything in stock. Checking what's the Arawn needs and what is lacking to deliver it is indeed tedious.

A building queue would be handy, like NPCs queue their order and the player also adds his order to the queue. The queue list gets iterated over and checked if the resources for an order are available, if they are the build job starts. If you want to build a CV while the NPCs queued an Arawn before but the resources for both jobs are not available the player CV would probably start first while the Arawn would start later if all resources for it gotten available. If a player queues an Arawn after an NPC Arawn the NPC triggered job would start first, but anyways the player would have to wait for it to finish in both ways, if there is a x% construction site which lacks resources or if there is an unstarted job before his job in the queue.
This could be handy, but would need some serious testing.
Just dreaming a little bit

Back to DeVries, I am still wondering where I could sell all the turrets and missiles/rockets that are stacking up there. Even if the SY builds an Sucellus it requires not much weaponry.
I'll probably need to export them manually.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

Egosoft have made strides in the direction of fixing the old issue that a station can fill up storage with ingredients needed for their products. I don't know if they feel they have fully fixed things or not though. For example, stations are now meant to allocate only a proportion of a storage type (e.g. container) to each part of the chain.

Have you by any chance restarted playing an old save. Perhaps the currant status could be the result of a problem that started under old versions of Rebirth. If that is the case, buying and selling a few ships could fix the issue.

If it is not an old save, or if the problem doesn't seem to fix when new ships are produced, it would be great if you could describe the issue and post a save game in the following beta testing forum:

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewforum.php?f=141