egosoft.com

I request an "Are you sure?"-question for every commoption of the type:
-"you are fired"
-"come back on board"

The implementation of these would be pretty easy: (example NPC_Staff.xml)

Code: Select all

find all nodes looking like this:
<add_player_choice text="{1002,3004}" section="cStaff_fire" position="bottom_left" comment="You\'re fired!"/>
change them to:
<add_player_choice text="{1002,3004}" section="cStaff_fire_are_you_sure" position="bottom_left" comment="You\'re fired!"/>
and add to <cue name="SectionHandler" instantiate="true"> the following statement:
            <do_if value="event.param == 'cStaff_fire_are_you_sure'">
              <add_player_choice text="'Yes I am sure you are fired'" section="cStaff_fire" position="top_left" comment="Yes fire" />
              <add_player_choice text="'No You are still of use'" section="cStaff_goodbye" position="bottom_left" comment="Nevermind."/>
            </do_if>

Files to edit:
NPC_Staff.xml
NPC_Marine.xml
NPC_Engineer.xml
NPC_Architect.xml
NPC_Specialist.xml
If you want this feature toggleable trough gameoptions:

Code: Select all

find all nodes looking like this:
<add_player_choice text="{1002,3004}" section="cStaff_fire" position="bottom_left" comment="You\'re fired!"/>
instead of changing them to:
<add_player_choice text="{1002,3004}" section="cStaff_fire_are_you_sure" position="bottom_left" comment="You\'re fired!"/>
replace the statement with:
<do_if value="$sometoggle" exact="1">
<add_player_choice text="{1002,3004}" section="cStaff_fire_are_you_sure" position="bottom_left" comment="You\'re fired!"/>
</do_if>
<do_else>
<add_player_choice text="{1002,3004}" section="cStaff_fire" position="bottom_left" comment="You\'re fired!"/>
</do_else>

Voted "no", as I cannot see any benefit from this. Care to elaborate, what it would be good for? If I want to fire someone, I want to fire them. Why would I want to be asked, whether I'm really sure?

The Q wrote:Voted "no", as I cannot see any benefit from this. Care to elaborate, what it would be good for? If I want to fire someone, I want to fire him. Why would I want to be asked, whether I'm really sure?

Because the button is inside the staffs main menu extreme close to the "show me you skill"-button so if you press 3 instead of 2 say goodbye to your 5*5*5* Marine Officer

The Q wrote:Voted "no", as I cannot see any benefit from this. Care to elaborate, what it would be good for? If I want to fire someone, I want to fire them. Why would I want to be asked, whether I'm really sure?

maybe you talked to your 5★ Captain about a new Assignment and just hit the wrong button?

Hasn't happened to me yet.

The Q wrote:Hasn't happened to me yet.

Try it, it's easy.

Voted Yes but only for "You are fired"

I'm like The Q Not fired anyone by acident yet touch wood

I think if this option is added that there should be a option in the Game Options to enable / disable the Question

ubuntufreakdragon wrote:Try it, it's easy.

Sure, if you do it on purpose. But I think that's not what is meant here, isn't it?

For me adding another query means I need one more keypress to get the action done I want. The more keypresses I have to do, the worse it gets. So If the system works for me now - and if at all I would think XR need less keypresses to get things done - then why would I want to extent the number of keypresses?

--------------------

Me: Do that thing please!
Employee: Should I really do that thing you asked me to do?
Me: Yes, that's why I asked you.
Employee: Really?
Me: ...
Me: You know what? You're fired.
Menu: Are you sure you want to continue?
Me: ARGH...

-----------------------

D.O.S. wrote:I think if this option is added that there should be a option in the Game Options to enable / disable the Question

Don't forget the option, whether that option should be displayed in the game options menu.

Edit: typo.

D.O.S. wrote:Voted Yes but only for "You are fired"

I'm like The Q Not fired anyone by acident yet touch wood

I think if this option is added that there should be a option in the Game Options to enable / disable the Question

A toggle for this is pretty easy, too.

Only for You are Fired!

Cause bringing them back on board, etc doesn't lose you anything.

Sounds like a good idea.

Voted for "Yes but only for "You are fired!" as it is something I have asked for several times to avoid the easy accident.

Didn't vote for the crew movement option to avoid extra clicks and as wwdragon mentioned, it isn't a fatal error.

I have to say though, I am VERY happy that Egosoft removed "You are fired!" from option 2 on the space radial menu for non-squad ships in 3.50. That was a much worse place for the option without a "Are you sure?". And then Egosoft replaced it with New Orders for non-squad ships too. Lovely.

ubuntufreakdragon wrote:Because the button is inside the staffs main menu extreme close to the "show me you skill"-button so if you press 3 instead of 2 say goodbye to your 5*5*5* Marine Officer

The same could be said for a number of mistaken interactions: Selling the wrong item, shooting a floating container. It all comes down to double-checking your aim, double-checking your hands, and saving your game prior to making important choices.

I submit the solution for the majority of mistakes is: Quicksave/Quickload.

NodusCursorius wrote:
ubuntufreakdragon wrote:Because the button is inside the staffs main menu extreme close to the "show me you skill"-button so if you press 3 instead of 2 say goodbye to your 5*5*5* Marine Officer
The same could be said for a number of mistaken interactions: Selling the wrong item, shooting a floating container. It all comes down to double-checking your aim, double-checking your hands, and saving your game prior to making important choices.

I submit the solution for the majority of mistakes is: Quicksave/Quickload.

As you have recognised, the issue is that it is possible to do this accidentally. It is not possible to predict when an accident will happen so saving and reloading beforehand isn't a solution.

It is a common feature in many walks of life to offer a "Are you sure?" for irreversible actions. ubuntufreakdragon isn't asking for special treatment - simply a normal fail-safe.

Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:As you have recognised, the issue is that it is possible to do this accidentally. It is not possible to predict when an accident will happen so saving and reloading beforehand isn't a solution.

I feel this displaces user responsibility.

Are you about to partake in actions that are important or at risk of loss? Back up the data. (quick save) Is the data backed up? Double-check your input. In this specific case, provided the individual is aware the UI can fire an NPC, they should be quicksaving.

for irreversible actions.

But these actions are reversible. As an example:

User partakes in data alteration, but can not back up the data prior: Create a failsafe
User partakes in data alteration, but can back up the data prior: The act of backing up is the failsafe

In both instances the user is making a choice that they can predict: Checking skills means they may possibly fat finger into firing.

Doubling the failsafe seems unnecessary at best and a hassle at worst.

NodusCursorius wrote:Are you about to partake in actions that are important or at risk of loss? Back up the data. (quick save)

This is the exact point of the OP - and I've had this situation too.

You cannot PREDICT when you are about to "partake in actions that are important" if you just wanted to check someone's skills, or give a new order, and you accidentally press "you're fired" with a slip of the finger on the number keys. You do not expect that you are going to partake in serious actions like that just by opening one menu and pressing the wrong button once. It should take TWO wrong button presses to confirm it.

Your example is fine for when you're going to try to cap a ship, or build a new station, or something else you know could go wrong, but not for routine crew examination and order giving. It should simply not be possible to accidentally fire some crew member from their main conversation menu! Or are you saying we should be quick saving every time we want to converse with an NPC "just in case"? Because that will get tedious.

I think he is and not only would that be an inelegant, time-consuming and over-complicated way to avoid the issue, it can also be shown to be inaccurate with the following example:

When quick-saving, a person could quick-load by mistake. If Quick-load doesn't have a "Are you sure?" option, you over-right your current game (= bad). If Quick-load does have a "Are you sure?" option, it would be a clear example that Egosoft recognises that these kinds of checks are worth using.

BlackDemon wrote:You cannot PREDICT when you are about to "partake in actions that are important"

I disagree, from both a user and developer standpoint. Especially when the topic is about preventing a very specific mistake that occurs on a very specific screen, indicating (and through admission) that people are aware of the mistake, where it may occur to them, and what precaution could take place.

but not for routine crew examination and order giving.

Performing routine crew examinations permits two options that do not require speaking to the NPC:

1. The used NPC skills (1 to 3 of them, depending upon role) are displayed in the default interaction box on the top-right of your screen. It will always display the skills relevant to that specific NPC role and the number of stars per skill.

2. Showing the Details of a Crewmember through a properties menu or otherwise allows you to select [4] Details which will display a complete listing of all skills, along with the number of stars per skill

Neither require the dangerous option of actually speaking to the NPC.

BlackDemon wrote:It should simply not be possible to accidentally ...

Why not? We're punished for friendly fire, our exploration crates explode from inaccurate shots, and ejecting the wrong wares for police security will reward us with gunfire. When I'm fighting beside a station I've grown wise enough to be extra careful with my autoaiming shots because of lessons learned in the past from misfiring. This should apply to the current topic as well.

What I would rather support is a separation of commands, much like they do with [6] Goodbye; in that certain commands are set away from otherwise common commands in an effort to provide both consistency in button placement as well as minimize the player pressing the wrong button due to its positioning beside a "heavy traffic" button.

Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:When quick-saving...

There is a good reason it does not ask us permission when Quick Saving.

User responsibility is important. Design is also important.

Quick Save = F5
Quick Load = F9

Do you know what is on F4 and F6? Nothing.
Do you know what is on F8 and F10? Nothing.

Separation of data choices where data alteration is occurring. That means the solution lies in layout of the menus (see my earlier idea) and not a nagging, secondary failsafe.

NodusCursorius wrote: Why not? We're punished for friendly fire, our exploration crates explode from inaccurate shots, and ejecting the wrong wares for police security will reward us with gunfire.

The first two examples are not relevant because they are about repercussions related to doing the intended task (pulling the trigger).

It is hard to see how the third example is relevant either because illegal wares are marked in a different colour so either the player was to slow or didn't want to eject the illegal wares.

Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:The first two examples are not relevant because they are about repercussions related to doing the intended task (pulling the trigger).

And if the player misfires, such as launching a missile when they forgot to open the Longrange Scanner first? Pulling the trigger doesn't alter the relevancy because either a physical or mental mistake occurred contrary to what the player wanted. That is precisely what is being discussed.

Sparky Sparkycorp wrote:It is hard to see how the third example is relevant either because illegal wares are marked in a different colour so either the player was to slow or didn't want to eject the illegal wares.

And the "You're Fired!" is marked under a different button, with a different hotkey. A completely different area of space. Yet the player could still select and eject the wrong wares by mistake.

I feel like you're being intellectually dishonest with me, or there's a miscommunication. We agree that there needs to be a solution, and disagree about which solution may produce more efficient results.

egosoft.com

[Feature Request] "Are you sure?" for all fire and move buttons!!!

[Feature Request] "Are you sure?" for all fire and move buttons!!!