Armed space stations?

[ragamer]

I would be amazed if they allow suicidal stations to go retail.

And I can tell you that it will be mostly the case...

...A constant on the entire X's series was the complete lack of attention to Friendly Fire on the "Vanilla" Turret code... Something painfully easy to exploit against the Xenons.

I understand the reassons, too much CPU power investment... That's why I think it will be highly likely that, due to the complexity of some of the modules already shown on some SS, Station turrets can be triggering FF regularly. For example:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y7BgzhXecA0/T ... 81ou57.jpg

This one that looks like a Solar Power Module (akin to the SPPs on previous X's) has the kind of geometry EASILY exploitable as cover by a player fighter (Specially if it's capable of the powerfull strafing of previous X's games) against the owning station turrets placed somewhere else.

I wouldn't be surprised if they used the simple solution (but unrealistic) of simply making the sations immune to damage of shots of their turrets (Which is far less CPU intensive). Something similar may happen to Rocket turrets that, without any doubt will not even require complex geometry for a player to use missiles against the owning station.

Added to this they can also deactivate collision detection against the owning stations for those shots... Which would remove the chance to use the station geomethry as cover (Notice that turret arc could still prevent it to shoot at targets out of it... But that makes sense and still a tactial option attackers and defenders should pay attention to).

[Bobucles]

I wouldn't be surprised if they used the simple solution (but unrealistic) of simply making the sations immune to damage of shots of their turrets (Which is far less CPU intensive)

Actually, the least CPU intensive would probably be to figure out and adjust the firing arcs BEFORE the station ever opens fire. It's not like stations are going to move! If the station suddenly finds itself with new, open firing arcs (because obstructing modules blew up/tractor beam shenanigans), then it's up to the station to shut their weapons down and reboot their systems.

Of course, there are other mechanics that could be added in, like:
- reduced self damage (shield modulation/magic/etc!)
- specialized short range defense weapons (flak/rapid fire/etc.)
- tractor weapons (to pull ships around, better firing arcs)
- missile spam
- Or just tank it, because popping tiny ships is worth a little damage.

[ragamer]

Actually, the least CPU intensive would probably be to figure out and adjust the firing arcs BEFORE the station ever opens fire. It's not like stations are going to move!

Oh... the question is... When you do this? How you calculate it?... Performing a kind of "ray tracing" into a "mesh" of angular coordinates you divide the whole firing arc into? This is what's done usually, you calculate a "firing allowed mask" you check each time before opening fire (The "angular size" of each element of the mask is usually controlled by the deviation of the proyectile shot, in particular by half the angular area).

This "mask" although has to be updated each time you add/remove a module to your station, the max range/max deviation of the mounted weapon changes and ofc each time you move/create any surface element. Notice that this process has to be repeated on EACH turret, each time any of the former changes happen.

But the above process can't help you at all with Rocket turrets...

...I would love to see something like the above implemented but...

...Don't you think that the "no collision" or the "no damage" dirty tricks will be much much much easier and will get rid of the potential "urge" of players attempting this kind of "tactics"? Which is the final goal, anyway (From Dev PoV, ofc... Not from the "realism lovers" like me).

[EmperorJon]

I was going to mention that... if a missile launcher needs some sort of universal missle ammo (Or even not, maybe they're customisable more) surely a station which PRODUCES these would be awesome, especially if you then get to sell it off to all the heavily defended stations in the area.

[brucewarren]

I get the impression it will also be possible to upgrade the station sensors
to cover a larger area.

Combined with long range missile production and turrets. I'd build me a
serious starbase and blockade everyone I didn't like.

Do we know if our stations can be towed? I'd like to build it out of harms
way and move it into place later.

[Zetoss]

Am I really the only one with a good answer to "simple AI for turrets"? This works with standard projectiles and dumbfire missiles:

Turret aims at enemy, fires a "ghost shot" that is invisible and does no damage and has immense speed. If the ghost hits friendly, the turret will NOT fire for about half a second, if it doesn't hit a friendly the turret will fire a real shot or burst. Repeat every half second. Covers ALL possible friendly fire scenarios in the entire imaginable gameworld with a fraction of the CPU usage of nearly any other idea.

BORING FURTHER DETAILS YOU NEED NOT READ:
To avoid 100 stupid questions the "ghost shot" is easy as pie to make from the programmers point of view, the game already always knows who is shooting who. The ghost shot can also be an exact copy of the projectile fired or a "buckshot" to reduce the odds of friendly fire even more. Seeker missiles that are not covered by this type of ghosting should automatically disarm when they get too close to a friendly so as to not harm it, the projectile is simply disabled. All of the above took me about 10 seconds to come up with so I kinda think Egosoft has already done this or something even better.

[kotorone1]

i agree with the above post.
Simple, requires almost no CPU power, and keep thing from killing themselves.
Or they might just go the route they did in X3 and let a ship shoot through itself......

[Bobucles]

Simple, requires almost no CPU power, and keep thing from killing themselves.

Doubling up every shot isn't CPU intensive?
There's also no simple way for a ghost bullet to predict if a ship CAN or WILL dodge a particular shot. If the ship dodges, the station can still shoot itself.

This "mask" although has to be updated each time you add/remove a module to your station, the max range/max deviation of the mounted weapon changes and ofc each time you move/create any surface element. Notice that this process has to be repeated on EACH turret, each time any of the former changes happen.

By "rebooting" the turret systems, of course! Stations don't change shape very often (a few times per game hour, max?). So when they do change shape, THAT'S the time to figure out how their weapons work. Combat is the LAST time you want to stack up the friendly fire scripts! Tough targeting issues should be solved before the CPU finds itself short on time.

If the game can't figure it out, the weapon can be flagged for the player to solve. Sometimes planting a PPC behind a giant ore refinery is just dumb.

Ideally, stations are connected in a way where few weapons find themselves with odd obstacles or restrictive firing arcs. Simple obstacles are pretty much unavoidable as stations become more complex. But really bad component spots can find other uses like shields or short ranged flak.

I can't say much about missiles. The only remotely predictable missiles will be heavy torpedoes. Buyer beware. Replace your small missiles with flak style weapons, limit them to long range (away from the station), or pump those shields. Another option is for "missile safety" equipment that disables friendly fire missiles, minimizing damage.

[Zetoss]

Actually it doesn't even need to double every shot, it can fire one ghost and ten real shots like a supercharged phased repeater gun. As I said the "buckshot" would further reduce the likelihood of friendly fire but let's say the turret instead fires an expanding ghost shot that will pass any hostile but report if it touches a friendly, it would be nearly impossible to get friendly fire even in dogfights and it still does only need to be done once or twice a second, the rest can be full auto 30 shots a second baby! Even the engine in X3TC can handle a thousand shots a second and still get "who-hits-who" right, I really doubt an increase of 10% workload would matter.

[Myrmedon]

I was going to mention that... if a missile launcher needs some sort of universal missle ammo (Or even not, maybe they're customisable more) surely a station which PRODUCES these would be awesome, especially if you then get to sell it off to all the heavily defended stations in the area.

And then charge the destroyed attacker for the goods delivered

[Bobucles]

And then charge the destroyed attacker for the goods delivered

Wasp missile x 35: 52500cr
Speed delivery: 7500cr
Littering fine x 80: 97050 cr
Trespassing x 13 : 6500cr
Unlawful disposal of radioactive waste: 20000 cr
Unlawful disposal of bio waste: 30000 cr
Failing to recycle common materials x 28 : 2100 cr
Overdue for Vehicle inspection: 1000 cr
Failed vehicle inspection: 2000 cr
Body disposal fee: 5000cr
Other punitive damages: 8720 cr
Other fines : 1360 cr
Subtotal: 233730 cr
Sales tax(15%): 35059.5 cr

Total: 268789.5 cr

Pay up.

[Myrmedon]

Woah Bobucles, you forgot the Department of motor spaceships excise tax on the fuel consumption during the action and during cleanup.

But that list right there is more of a deterrent than any gun platform, where is the profit in attacking the station? Darn expensive proposition!